Swiss + Harms #8: Schnabeltiere und Spione
Episode 8 – Platypuses and spies
Swiss und Harms – Zwischen Tour und Angel
(translator’s note: in German you literally say, “between door and hinge” for “in passing,” they altered it to “between tour and hinge”)
Description of the episode:
In episode 8, Chris and Swiss talk about their recent tour experiences. It's about crowd surfing dwarves, concertgoers on “Sabbelwasser” [1] and thieving celebrity chefs. Later, Maximilian Krah's espionage affair is analyzed. Conclusion: Not all that bad! Have respect for every street and don't forget to leave us a 5-star rating!
*Intro playing*
Chris: At home on the radios (he says this in a manner like the announcers did back in the 1960s or the like), welcome to episode 8 of Swiss and Harms from the southernmost tip of Scandinavia, close to—this used to be close to the Danish border here, where we—
Swiss: Altona (part of Hamburg) already was Denmark, right?
Chris: Yeah. In St. Pauli there are these funny stones in the ground everywhere, with “AH” written on them, for “Altona” and “Hamburg” most likely, right?
Swiss: Dude, I think it’s “Adolf Hitler”.
Chris: I thought so too, but they are these “stumbling stones” (memorial stones)
Swiss: Stumbling stones are something completely different, you’re getting… [something mixed up]
Chris: I always literally “stumble over” them because someone really thought they actually stood for “Adolf Hitler”.
Swiss: Oh, Christian. You have really put your foot in so many mouths by now already.
Chris: We are starting. How are you? You're currently in the middle of a tour; I'm done for now. How are you?
Swiss: Uhm, Christian, I am really doing quite well, I had—the first weekend of touring was *bottle opening sound* not so cool for me as I had massive problems with my voice—you know that if you are sick, the voice doesn’t work, then you constantly have got something in your head that you don’t like all that much, plus we somehow had a difficult start to it, me too, on the first day I stood in front of our merch storage and because I was unhappy I yelled and threw merch boxes around *laughs*—
Chris: Nice!
Swiss: —and everyone—
Chris: So “throwing around merch boxes” is the “throwing the TV out of the window” of the new era.
Swiss: Exactly. And I was very upset, that got sorted then, and—yeah, now I have “arrived” on tour, and it is brutal what should I say.
Chris: How many shows have you done now, half?
Swiss: Half of this springtime—not exactly half of them yet.
Chris: Yeah.
Swiss: We have done six and play seven more—and it has been insane so far. It really is… I got the feeling; you had your tours… you are on tour—last time we were on tour one and a half years ago.
Chris: Yeah.
Swiss: Somehow you remember it as very energetic and think "demolition", but this time I sometimes have the feeling like, “Dude, what’s going on? Where do these wild ones come from?”. There’s this one girl, I think, she even listens to our Podcast, best regards, she was there for the first time—
Chris: Mm-hmm.
Swiss: —I think. She rather goes to metal shows normally, such boring stuff.
Chris: Things, which—
Swiss: Iron Maiden and the like; Lord of the—*laughs*
Chris: Old school stuff.
Swiss: Well, she definitely knows concert settings and she really was—afterwards she went “Wow, I never have experienced it like this before!” She really was—you always think “ok, this all looks good, like a demolition”, but that it’s even wilder… I very often get to hear that.
Chris: I was just about to say this: I know your social media stuff, and you know that it always gets “built” in a way to make it appear as there’s always a lot going on, but I know how it is with you. I can only say to everyone: if you look at the Swiss & Die Andern stories, for those who don't know, the movement in the audience is completely unbelievable to me.
Swiss: It’s really wild.
Chris: Madness.
Swiss: And I have to say, I actually had… we have a song that I play with Jakob in acoustic, "Hotel zu den Sternen"—
Chris: Yeah. We've already discussed it here, that song.
Swiss: Exactly.
Chris: In terms of content.
Swiss: And then there's a moment when we build something like this in front of our Pennymarkt—the setting is like "Pennymarkt at night", we put a bench in front of it and we play it with acoustics— (Penny is a German discount chain; one of Swiss’ albums is called “Erstmal zu Penny”, which means “To Penny’s First”).
Chris: Is it that old bench from earlier, have you still always got it with you?
Swiss: The very old bench, which we took from the garden behind the studio.
Chris: It’s still the same bench?
Swiss: It’s the same bench.
Chris: Okay, okay.
Swiss: And during this song the people are babbling!
Chris: Oh, I was just about to ask.
Swiss: I don't remember it like that. I remember that our acoustic things are always vibed very collectively.
Chris: But that's—quite honestly, I think it's because of the size.
Swiss: Bro, that’s—
Chris: It does something to the people. That is—
Swiss: I was in Kiel (city in northern Germany), and I was really annoyed in Kiel because I was so… you make a joke at the beginning, say something like, "Guys, do I have to place you in different spots now?" or something like that, and then people start babbling, and then I decided for myself: ey, this song—not, because I want to punish someone or—you know, it has nothing to do with my… ey, in the end you're… in the end you get there for the people.
Chris: Of course, you are the entertainer.
Swiss: If you play a role there in the front, and they all just want demolition, bro—you’ll get your demolition, everything’s fine, right—then I skip the song. But if I play it, I need to have the feeling that the people vibe it with me, otherwise it feels for me that it doesn't do this song and my feeling for it justice.
Chris: That people are listening at that moment, like in a play—
Swiss: And in that moment, I have also—
Chris: —and not like at a party.
Swiss: —in the following two shows I also said that, and there it really was better then. I said, “Hey, we don’t have to play this.” I’m not angry or anything if we don’t play that one, but if we ask, “Shall we play this one?” everyone goes “YEEEAAAH!”. Like in Erfurt (city in Germany) shortly before the end of the show, someone whistled in the style of “hyping on”, and then the whole room shouted, “Shut the fuck up!” *laughs* But still it somehow takes away the vibe for a bit and I really noticed that it is very, very wild with us, and—
Chris: But very briefly, to… I believe you really have to give people a bit of credit for that. If you reflect on yourself… Suppose you go to a singer-songwriter or something like that in the Prinzenbar (club in Hamburg), the furthest person away from the artist is 7 meters away.
Swiss: Yeah.
Chris: And he sings a quiet song, you're hanging on—or even if it's a punk band playing—when they play a quiet song, you're hanging on to their lips, you're close to them. And when you say something, you immediately have people around you; it's like in a classroom where everyone knows everyone else.
Swiss: Yeah, that’s true.
Chris: If you scale that up to your size, to our size, or to something really big: Volksparkstadion (stadium in Hamburg), you sit in the back on the last bench, you have—that's a different form of magic, you let yourself be carried more by a synchronization of feelings through great light, an awesome show, and if someone at the very, very back sings a sad song alone, then you just talk to your buddy with a beer, and that—
Swiss: Exactly, and that—
Chris: —and nobody will get angry at you.
Swiss: —Exactly, and that’s what I was trying to say: they are not malicious troublemakers—
Chris: Nope, but—
Swiss: —but it’s like this: bro, go to the bar briefly, get yourself a beer… there were these background noises.
Chris: Have you got both earphones in while you play the song?
Swiss: Yes, but—
Chris: Have you got ambience microphones, so you hear the people?
Swiss: They were off.
Chris: Okay.
Swiss: Everything runs only via the microphones; we had even switched off the microphones of the guitar.
Chris: That’s what I meant. This can partly help you to put yourself in a more intimate atmosphere.
Swiss: That was a big discussion among us but hey, everything’s fine. At the end of the day, I’m ok with it if people want their demolition. You also have to say that one of my favourite parts of the show, and that's where you come in, of course–
Chris: “Orphan!”—nope (Song on a Swiss Album by that same name)
Swiss: —nope, it’s actually the four songs with Ferris. Bro, we enter with “Angezeigt” (“Reported”), this *dee-dee-dee-dee-dee*, then it goes over to “PUNKABOiZ”, then “Punkerpolizei” (“Punk Police”) and “Bullenwagen” (“Cop Cars”). It’s always such a demolition, these four songs, that’s—at the first time, Ferris came out and looked at me as suddenly everyone was jumping, that’s so insane. I am very happy about that.
Chris: Let me show you something… I'll also post it as a story. So, if you ever want to see Lord of the Lost fans at an aftershow party—I have now—it was just the end of the tour in Leipzig, and… so how well Lord of the Lost fans know the lyrics *plays a video of “Linksradikaler Schlager” (“Left radical pop song”) by Swiss & Die Andern from his phone*… in the disco, after the show.
Swiss: Who’s that? I cannot tell.
Chris: Lord of the Lost fans in the club, where I was the DJ. “Linksradikaler Schlager”.
Swiss: Cool, bro. Really, really cool. Yeah, put that into the story, how the people—
Chris: And “Schwarz Tot Gold” (“Black Dead Gold”, a reference to the German flag, which is black-red-gold). It was just simply… we did the tour finish, which was totally sick, there were 3000 people in “Haus Auensee” (concert hall in Leipzig, a city in Germany).
Swiss: In Leipzig, dude.
Chris: The biggest headlining show outside of Hamburg, and I’d say “Lordfest” is somehow like a festival, so: biggest tour show EVER, where it’s just us alone.
Swiss: Do you have a thesis as to why Leipzig?
Chris: Yeah, for a bit it is because of the Wave-Gothic-Treffen, this WGT, which takes place there once per year, it’s kind of the “Capital of the Black Scene”.
Swiss: Okay.
Chris: It is not as oversaturated as Berlin; Berlin was also awesome with 1500 people on a Wednesday night, but anyhow! After it was the aftershow party, I was putting on records till 3am, it was 300 people in this small club “Darkflower”, and among… metal, I dunno—
Swiss: Everything.
Chris: —all-time-favourites, I played “Linksradikaler Schlager” and everyone, everyone sang along loudly—except for the ones coming from abroad; they were standing on the dancefloor and didn’t understand what was happening around them right then.
Swiss: “What is this?”
Chris: Like: “What is this? And why is everyone so happy?” So, among the Lord of the Lost fans, you definitely are a really awesome left-radical pop star.
Swiss: Cool, bro, I always enjoy hearing that.
Chris: You really have to put it that way.
Swiss: Yeah, I also see all of your pictures and I have… I don’t know, where you have been there, was that… I think in Prague or something—
Chris: Mm-hmm.
Swiss: —bro, and it also looked so amazing, and—
Chris: Yeah, also abroad we now have, except for one or two rogue results, always about 1000 people there.
Swiss: Bro, and that’s really… you know, that’s… you have to savour this as a German artist—
Chris: Yep.
Swiss: Of course, it’s in English but still, to go to Prague as a German artist, and over 1000 people or 1000 people come to watch it.
Chris: It was 21 shows in 11 countries, and that’s not even all of our markets, Scandinavia for example is missing entirely so—totally. I am still totally buzzed, it was so amazing, and I am so grateful, and I also had—we had troubles with our voices at the same time. We have been giving each other medication advice.
Swiss: Right!
Chris: Corona has fucked me up so badly that the voice got a really strange… I don’t know how it failed with you, but with me it was that from half of the show on I no longer got into the low notes well.
Swiss: Yeah.
Chris: Because I suddenly had a—I put it that way *says in some kind of grandpa-voice* “You suddenly have this kind of grandpa-voice, which only sounds like this anymore… and are unable to do the low notes, which normally come as “Natural Born Killer” with me—
Swiss: Yeah, yeah.
Chris: —they were not there anymore. And then you just sing with a constrained voice down there awkwardly like someone in a Rammstein cover band, who doesn’t manage to sing those low notes, and I felt so stupid doing that.
Swiss: Yeah. Well bro, the thing is, people usually don’t notice that.
Chris: No, people don’t notice it, I have also mentioned it, I said: “People, my voice is properly fucked up, come sing along!” and such—but about yourself—you know yourself what that does to your ego, when the voice is everything you have and you want to make the people happy and then you realize… you find yourself not good enough at that moment—
Swiss: Yeah, yeah.
Chris: —for what the people deserve. That’s hard for me.
Swiss: I really don’t give a shit about that.
Chris: Yep *laughs*
Swiss: I go: “You are so blessed, you are here at this awesome show—of course, I don’t hit a single note right, and the guitar is out of…” for 1-2 songs our backliner has tuned the guitar wrong.
Chris: On purpose.
Swiss: No idea. Anyhow it was wild.
Chris: *laughs*
Swiss: Right, but to wrap this up again, here’s some nerd talk for the people: tour life is always a mix of a thousand emotions; on one hand it is incredibly exhausting, this time I slept so shitty in the nightliner, we’ll be getting a new nightliner now—
Chris: I have slept so well like never before!
Swiss: Really? —and I am also getting a new… I think I am allowed to say that now—
Chris: You need to take our nightliner, that one’s so cool!
Swiss: We’re getting a new bus driver, and that’s why… yesterday I just got home, I have been sleeping—
Chris: Yeah.
Swiss: —like back in the days, when you were driving a nine-seat bus yourself, drinking and playing shows, you know. When you just were dead in the end, but I think the energy that you get back for the music, which you have somehow created in a small chamber—that’s just a great feeling, you should wish every person in the world the chance to experience this once.
Chris: The thing is, that not each of us—with “of us” I mean of the humans here on this planet—not each of us seeks the outlet to let out creativity, but many are, luckily, otherwise we couldn’t do our job—happy to just use other people’s music as an outlet. Imagine, everybody would need this as much as you and me, of course there’s—
Swiss: But that’s how it feels, I dunno, everybody does…
Chris: —in this way you don’t have a chance.
Swiss: Many also avoid the step of having to be good at something and are just good at selling themselves. And simply this skill to be able to sell yourself well and to entertain people on the internet by “being yourself” or to sell yourself well is enough already. We have already talked about that, people who are known for… being known.
Chris: Yeah.
Swiss: The two of us are lucky.
Chris: I wanted to—before we finish the tour topic and talk about happiness—or what other beautiful topics you have brought with you today, Werner—
Swiss: I have brought a few things with me, bro, dude… Krischi (strange nickname for “Christian”)
Chris: I wanted to briefly share ten very small facts about the ten countries that are not Germany that I noticed once again.
Swiss: Okay.
Chris: A very brief summary: Switzerland: quietest concerts, louder than 99Db is not allowed.
Swiss: Yeah.
Chris: Austria: longest applause.
Swiss: Okay.
Chris: We have… with us the songs just keep on coming, with a click and such, they come in blocks, so the breaks in between the songs are always the exact same length.
Swiss: Yeah.
Chris: And so, I notice precisely how long the applause reaches into the new—
Swiss: Into the song, okay.
Chris: —into the next one. That was Austria—
Swiss: Where did you play there?
Chris: In Vienna, in… uhm… yeah. SimmCity (name of the venue)
Swiss: Cool.
Chris: Simmering (city district in Vienna)
Swiss: How many people fit in there?
Chris: 1500 people fit in there. (translator’s note: he was mistaken on this, only 800 people fit in there)
Swiss: Cool.
Chris: And we had about 1000.
Swiss: Cool, yeah.
Chris: Czech Republic: loudest audience.
Swiss: Okay.
Chris: Poland: almost as loud, in both shows in Poland there was a mosh pit—but in the very back.
Swiss: Really?
Chris: I don’t know why. Normally mosh pits are in the front third or half.
Swiss: Yeah.
Chris: There are a few rows in the front who want to watch, and then comes the mosh pit. Really, there the mosh pit was in the farthest quarter.
Swiss: Okay, interesting.
Chris: Totally awesome. Netherlands: best technology, incredibly cool equipment. Luxemburg: we became really poor there *laughs*
Swiss: Because you had to give away so much of your merch, right?
Chris: No, we paid a lot for that show, there were by far not enough people there, in a way too big venue,
Swiss: Really?
Chris: Even though it is only 50km from Saarbrücken (town in Germany), where we sold out a 1500-person venue within a couple of weeks, there were fewer than 500 people there in Luxemburg.
Swiss: They have all been there before, that’s why.
Chris: Maybe. In Spain: the people don’t really do mosh pits, but they’re dancing the whole time.
Swiss: Oh cool! Cool.
Chris: They’re dancing! Italy: best catering. Hungary: Even though we had to raise the merch prices by 50% due to ultra crazy local value-added taxes and licenses and such—you are not allowed to sell stuff there yourself—
Swiss: Mm-hmm.
Chris: —you don’t earn anything with it because it’s that expensive, and if you make it even more expensive, nobody will buy it anymore.
Swiss: Mm-hmm.
Chris: And if you make it just this expensive, it—becomes a hobby. And France: from the beginning, from song #1 on, there was a mosh pit with every single song. Even with a ballad: mosh pit.
Swiss: Okay.
Chris: We have tried how it works out: people, I play one song on my own with the guitar and vocals only, we let Class go crowd surfing.
Swiss: During the acoustic song.
Chris: During the acoustic song. Or was it there? We also told the people, “Do a crowd surfing contest” or something, no idea. And then you stand there all alone with the acoustic guitar, you play a song, everyone has their cell phone flashes on and the lighters, and there’s the crowd surfers.
Swiss: Cool.
Chris: In slow motion.
Swiss: Awesome.
Chris: That was pretty cool. These are my few “Europe facts”.
Swiss: Yes, I also have to say that we played in Switzerland in my, let's say, hometown, where my father came from…
Chris: Solothurn?
Swiss: Solothurn. And ey, the catering was out of this world. They were so nice. There was food all day… Then there were homemade banana cakes in the morning—
Chris: I was thinking “homemade bananas”.
Swiss: —there was overnight porridge. There was just something all the time and I felt so good. And I realized what home means to me. And that I—
Chris: That you're emigrating.
Swiss: —that I want to go back to the army in Switzerland because it means so much to me *chuckles*
Chris: Could you do that? Could you be drafted?
Swiss: Uh… no. I don't think I'll be drafted as a Swiss abroad. BUT my father would have had to serve five years or something. I don't know what it's like now.
Chris: But ey, interesting topic. We're not quite the same generation. Were you still drafted?
Swiss: I was still conscripted.
Chris: But then you were probably one of the last, weren't you?
Swiss: They took me apart completely. Because I had a problem handling a weapon, I ended up doing civilian service.
Chris: Which you don't have otherwise, of course.
Swiss: Diggi… And then they, ey, I did such hard civilian service jobs, I don't even want to talk about it. In any case, it was really [hard]… Yes, I was one of the last. But I still have to say, regardless of joining the army, I don't think it's wrong when young people have to do something for society for a year.
Chris: Hey, sorry—
Swiss: They're all so checked out these days and “How do I optimize myself” and “How do I somehow become successful” and do something for myself and my career…
Chris: —Work-life balance, but rather just life.
Swiss: Bro, do something for others for a year.
Chris: Digga, ey, sorry, I'm totally, maybe I'm alone there, but I'm such a tough representative of the involuntary social year [2] …
Swiss: Of course, do it.
Chris: So, guys, it's all very well when you're young, you want to be go-getters and shout, “fuck the system” and all that, but at some point you'll be old and need the system. And regardless of the system, let's just talk about the humanitarian system, about us humans as a community. If you don't learn what it means to really put something in and be there in a very small way and let's say, serve, in the sense of really helping. I'm not talking about the army, I'm talking about old people's homes, changing diapers.
Swiss: Just doing something for the community.
Chris: Exactly.
Swiss: People are all like that today… Everyone is only interested in themselves. We live in such an individualistic society where everyone somehow has the feeling that they have to make themselves the next big thing.
Chris: We're so privileged that no one realizes what it means to really… So, let's put it this way, the understanding of social jobs, of care workers, what they do, is completely different once you've done it. It's a bit like the “car driver vs. cyclist” debate. If you ride a bike and drive a car, you understand what the problems are.
Swiss: 100%.
Chris: And I, I don't know, it's obviously hardcore to say something like that they'll enforce it, but I would if I could enforce an involuntary social year. You have to do something social for the community for a year and then you can study and do your work-life balance…
Swiss: I think as part of a society, and I'm not talking about “a state” or “for your country”—
Chris: I'm also talking about “serving society”.
Swiss: —but yourself together with other people, bro, then try, or sister… Then I think it's only right that you also… That does something to your brain. You realize “I'm just here as part of society and helping others”. And that's simple, I think we have a duty as a society to help each other and to develop a sense of solidarity with each other. And people don't do that anymore. And I think that's really cool. And that actually brings me to my point.
Chris: Can I ask you a quick question: did you feel the same way back then, after you did your community service jobs, that you felt like “I've put something into it now” or was that something you only realized later as an adult, because I didn't actually realize how important it was for me until later.
Swiss: No, I only realized it now, I still don't really feel it. I only said it here now to make a statement.
Chris: Because I hated it back then. I only realized it later.
Swiss: Hey, I was just smoking weed. Man, I was wiping ass, Diggi. I really did, because I'm so lazy too…
Chris: In a retirement home?
Swiss: Nah, I have such an autistic… Well, I wiped one ass over and over again.
Chris: I was in an old people's home.
Swiss: I had an autistic boy… So that was also really emotionally exhausting, because I felt sorry for him, and it was very demanding. And the parents, it's often like that, parents of children like that are also very demanding and want things above and beyond your community service obligations. It was really tough at times, but as I said, I also smoked a lot during that time. I used to go there stoned, laughing, it was a Waldorf school for children with physical and mental disabilities and those who were difficult to educate. It was just so funny at times, and I was always stoned there, and I always laughed myself to death in the morning circle.
Chris: I was also once quite stoned in a retirement home. That was back in my nasty days.
Swiss: Yes, it was very funny, but I was kicked out of there too.
Chris: Same with me.
Swiss: I got kicked out and ended up at the tax office with a blind employee who was actually super cool to work with, I was able to sleep a lot because he always had to read in his data and then sometimes, I had to look things up on the internet to confirm his mileage allowance. Whether the distance was correct and so on.
Chris: Ok, ok, so service.
Swiss: And then he started to suspect me of stealing something from him…
Chris: Oh boy… Which was true, of course.
Swiss: No. And then he was like “I'll call the head of the tax office now”, and I said, “Then call him.” Then he called the boss, then the boss came in, he was already so… comes in and makes derogatory gestures along the lines of “Yes, we've seen this before”. And then it turned out that he was like “Yeah, but I don't think he's stealing anything here and blah blah blah.” And then they told me later that he'd already kicked out civilian service workers three times because he suspected them of stealing. I mean, look, I can understand that a bit. You don't see. And then you misplace, we all misplace something—
Chris: That requires a different level of trust.
Swiss: —and ask ourselves “Where is that right now?”, and if you're blind, of course you suspect someone who can see. Because that's also an imbalance of power in a certain way, right? I could take something from him, and he doesn't see it. But regardless of that, I've been a lot of things in my life, but I've never been a thief or anything. And certainly not such a shabby one. Sure, I've gone into places once or twice, but that was money that belonged to a big company or something. But I would never steal money or anything like that. But I'd like to conclude by saying: at what level of discretion regarding information that you pass on to a state with a system that is difficult are you a spy? Just because you somehow pass on internal information from the Bundestag or the European Parliament to China for a bit of money? Does that make you a spy? Or how do you feel about the way they treat our Max here? Max Krah [3]. It's so… don't you think…
Chris: Our Max. *chuckles* It's a bit mean. Above all, I wonder what the D stands for in “Alternative Für Deutschland” in this case.
Swiss: “Alternative for discretion?”
Chris: Would you perhaps like to briefly clarify for the ignorant out there what… the facts are?
Swiss: Ey, it really is a bit of dangerous half-knowledge. So, an employee of, I think the biggest political TikTok star in Germany. An absolute AfD pig cheek, Maximilian Krah, who always has such pithy TikTok contributions, like “Haha, most women, they have to make themselves beautiful for their men” and you think to yourself “Ey, you're a pig cheek, so…” well, never mind. So, he always tells us in his posts what a German patriot really is and how to be a good German. And his colleague, his closest colleague, has now been arrested by the State Security Service for espionage.
Chris: Russia and China, right?
Swiss: Yes, and he passed on internal information, especially to China. Highly sensitive internal affairs. And Maximilian Krah is now also under investigation. And I just find it…
Chris: The question is, what does that do to such a proudly patriotic AfD voter?
Swiss: He doesn't give a shit, Digga, whether he…
Chris: He doesn't get it at all.
Swiss: But that's so funny, because they're always crowing about democracy and so on and then states like Russia…
Chris: Especially patriotism. It's all about your own country.
Swiss: And the cool thing is, and I read something about it the other day that I found very exciting. I have to brag now; I think I read it in Le Monde Diplomatique.
Chris: You read the French press?
Swiss: French press, of course Digga. In any case, what I wanted to say was that Russian society is very much a society of the strongest. So, strong men, extremely violent society…
Chris: Patriarchy also has a completely different status there.
Swiss: Exactly. And extremely violent, beatings and so on.
Chris: So, I can also go by what I experienced there. I think I was on five/six tours in Russia. And I got to know a lot of Russians and I can definitely relate to certain social things that we here nowadays perhaps feel are a bit backward or old school.
Swiss: Exactly. Totally traditionalist values.
Chris: Extremely conservative.
Swiss: You're not gay, you don't cry and blah blah blah. And of course, these AfD voters can identify with that. That's what they think is cool. And somehow, they also find a China that is somehow oppressive. So, AfD voters find such a strong hand cool. And that of course, is what you like about a strong hand—
Chris: A strong right hand.
Swiss: —as long as it doesn't regulate you, but others, but…
Chris: Well, that's a bit like, I don't know, when there's an election in Turkey and the German-Turks vote for Erdogan here, while they're doing well here and don't have to suffer under him there.
Swiss: You know, I always have to hold back a bit when it comes to Turkey.
Chris: But I can say that. Just saying. I'm just saying that the AfD voters here, who don't even know what it means to live in a system like China. That's roughly how I feel here in our free and open society, where Turks for example, live super free and easy in St. Pauli and then vote for Erdogan because it's also arch conservative.
Swiss: Definitely.
Chris: You can leave it at that.
Swiss: As I said, unfortunately I always have to do that because I have some kind of family connection there and there are very wild stories, especially when it comes to that—
Chris: I know that.
Swiss: —it always sounds so paranoid and all that, but there's also a reason why I don't go to certain demos, because I wouldn't want to be photographed there.
Chris: Absolutely. I can understand it.
Swiss: For whatever reason. Of course, it's exactly the principle you're describing, and I always find it so funny when AfD voters shout “That's not democracy anymore!” And I always think to myself “You can rant and rave so loudly here”—
Chris: Yes, saying with impunity that it's not a democracy.
Swiss: —and see it as non-democracy that others have a different opinion and take you to task for it. “You're not allowed to say anything!” Yes, you can. You say that all the time.
Chris: Above all, to see it as non-democracy to say it's not democracy. If it's as bad as you say, then you can't even say that. You don't even get a chance to speak. Or only for a very short time.
Swiss: Exactly. And I believe that this hard hand and this soft spot for this traditionalism outweighs and the whole apple is already rotten. And that's because of course, no matter what ZDF (German television broadcaster), die Süddeutsche or Die Zeit or whatever media we have, people will report on it… “Well, they're lying anyway.” Do you understand what I mean?
Chris: Or they only know lies. The only question is, are they actively lying or are they just passing on things that are lies? Are you being reproductive, to put it that way?
Swiss: Exactly. But they just don't recognize the truth. And if Maximilian Krah and his colleague are suspected of espionage or have already been convicted, then it's all a set-up to get one over on the AfD, who actually love everything so much. “It was obvious once again.” And I think it's so cool because this Maximilian Krah is always so full of integrity and “Yes, Turks should vote for us too, don't you think?” Playing on resentments and fears and so on, “because the refugees who are coming now are all getting German courses, which you didn't get back then.” And I know a lot of Turks who argue with me in exactly the same way: “Hey, look what they're all getting, the Syrians, the Ukrainians. We didn't get all that.” That may be true, but…
Chris: Do you have Turkish friends who would vote for the AfD?
Swiss: I know 100% migrants, not even just Turks, who say “I'm not going to vote—
Chris: Yes, I know about that.
Swiss: —but if I do, then I actually think the AfD is pretty cool.”
Chris: Eieiei.
Swiss: And we've talked about this cohort before, in case you remember. In this conversation, we've also talked about this cohort before. And that's often an overlapping cohort. And nevertheless, you have to say there's one thing that someone once said to me that I find very funny and it's very exaggerated, but he said: “Hey, it's always the people who talk about loyalty, who talk about loyalty the most, who fuck their friends behind their backs. It's always the people who talk the most about ‘fatherland’ who are most likely to shit on their fatherland for money. It's always the people who talk the loudest about child protection, who watch pedo movies and somehow when someone is too obsessed with a topic, you always have to say ‘bro, something's wrong.’”
Chris: What do you think is the reason for this? Is this a diversionary tactic? In other words, a way of deceiving people from their own—
Swiss: I think it's a coping mechanism in a way. So, hey, that doesn't count at all in that direction… What I’m saying now cannot be proven here—
Chris: No, no, no, I'm just asking you about your feelings!
Swiss: Feeling… my feeling is that it is a coping mechanism. In the sense of “What is bothering me?” in whatever way. “And in order to find a way to deal with it, I'm going to make it a topic because it's been bothering me all the time” but in such a way that it's somehow socially acceptable.
Chris: So now the big question I have to ask myself is, what we talk about all the time, what we complain about, what does that actually say about us?
Swiss: Example?
Chris: We also have our topics that we can't get away from.
Swiss: Yeah.
Chris: Where we say, “Fuck this, fuck that!” “Fucking...” I don't know, “... religion,” for example. Institutionally run religion for example. One of my biggest hate topics. Not faith per se, not belief, not any deity that is somehow possible. But oppressive, institutionally run religion. This makes me really angry! But maybe I'm actually secretly a little pope myself.
Swiss: I'm the best example! I'm always bitching about religion, and I actually have a cult (Swiss has a kind of regional and self-managed fan club called "Sippschaften", which means something like “Clans.” At some point someone called it a cult and he's been making fun of it ever since.)
Chris: 1323, the number of the beast? (1323 stands for the 13th and 23rd letters in the alphabet M and W, "Missglückte Welt" which means failed world. This is the umbrella term for his life and everyone in it.)
Swiss: What I had to read recently: “The cult leader with the god complex.” I am actually the example we are talking about here—
Chris: We have also already talked about “Swiss + Harms - The Mass.” (Like Christian mass in a church)
Swiss: —spoke about the mass, right. Let's do that! Maybe in the winter. Hey, I think it will be great. I want to go into a church.
Chris: Yeah! Let’s go into a church! Do we have a—
Swiss: We talk in a church, then we do about 3-4 songs in between, maybe a bit of music.
Chris: I think we talked about this last time. Or the time before last. We have to… I want to do this!
Swiss: Bro, you know how fast it would be sold out!
Chris: Above all, you know, we are one of those people, and I think that's one of our biggest advantages, who somehow put every idea we have, no matter how stupid, into practice.
Swiss: We are doing this!
Chris: It's a Swiss & Die Andern thing and Lord of the Lost thing anyway. It's always a crazy idea, most of the time. The coolest things come from a crazy idea, and it being done.
Swiss: We are doing this! I have no idea what that says about us… This is just a very rigid thesis, so I obviously don't mean to say that everyone who campaigns for child protection or whatever, that would also mean that every Antifa member who is extremely against fascism is actually an absolute Nazi.
Chris: Ahhh! That would be really hard, but I think it’s—
Swiss: I think there is sometimes a certain affinity behind it, which doesn't always point in a clear direction. When people are too obsessed with missionary things. You know? Like “I want to save Germany!” Okay bro, but for 50,000€ you get yourself invited to China and hold talks with the secret service, Maximilian Krah and his assistant, and you think “I don't know how patriotic I find that.” And then I realize that maybe it's not that important to you. What interests you is your own ass. The main thing is to be seen, somehow.
Chris: *in Bavarian dialect* “I like kebabs, but only when they really squirt!”
Swiss: Yeah!
Chris: But that was the other guy, it was Markus Söder. The Söder*innen (He’s a German politician, CDU, and this is a sarcastic joke, since he has banned gender language in Bavaria).
Swiss: *sarcastic* Really awesome guy!
Chris: But I would like to answer your question because you introduced the topic with the question “How much information can you give out?” And I would say five.
Swiss: Five. General as a number, right.
Chris: So generally, as a number, around that… That we can perhaps also close the topic.
Swiss: Five is generally always a good number. People also say that they should not think of percent—
Chris: No, five.
Swiss: And I think that's a good value to orientate yourself by. Yeah, that was my topic to start with. Christian, did you bring anything with you?
Chris: I have a few things. First, I wanted to tell a funny story: Steffen Henssler—
Swiss: I know him!
Chris: —the celebrity chef owes Lord of the Lost a really big meal!
Swiss: Are you serious? Why?
Chris: So, *laughs* we had to reorder the tour shirts a few times on tour because they sold out faster than planned, which is a nice thing. But it's always annoying for the people because they don't get their size. We reordered a few times in between and had to reorder for the end of the tour in Leipzig with 3000 people. The evening before us, Steffen Henssler had a cooking show with an audience at Haus Auensee in Leipzig.
Swiss: He also did that in the Haus Auensee?
Chris: Yes, one day before us. And the day before that our merch was delivered and Steffen Henssler's crew packed our merch into the Henssler truck that evening.
Swiss: Really?!
Chris: Which is why all of our tour shirts weren't there when the tour ended. 250 of them in sizes that were no longer available, and then we made a post and informed people that Steffen Henssler had eaten our shirts. And that's why I think, I hope Steffen hears this—
Swiss: Did he not respond?
Chris: He did not respond on social media.
Swiss: Oh Steffen, now don't act so expensive just because you cook a little for the people! Give the people—
Chris: Food!
Swiss: —their M and S shirts back, man! That's Lord of the Lost bro, they're hustling. I don't like that at all Steffen! Don't act expensive here! I think I can really get into it.
Chris: I think he has, I don't know, 112 restaurants or something in Hamburg.
Swiss: Yeah, man, really!
Chris: He can give us—
Swiss: Come over with your money or a nice meal for the whole crew!
Chris: So, uh, by the way, where is my Swiss merch? I wanted the red Penny hoodie.
Swiss: You’ll get it.
Chris: A red one!
Swiss: You want this one?
Chris: The red Penny hoodie! Yeah, ok, that’s my Hennsler story.
Swiss: Great story!
Chris: But I also have a question for you. It’s funny on one hand and on the other hand… Where I really ask myself where do you make a cut? It’s about children again and the topic isn’t hardcore—
Swiss: Bro! We're talking about this, this kind of affinity when people… a topic… Please! And now you have to bring up the children topic again?
Chris: Yeah, wait—
Swiss: Then at some point you'll hear “Swiss+Harms, they always talk about all these children's topics…”
Chris: Yeah, Kindergarten, Swiss+Harms – the Kindergarten. No, the question is: At our Paris concert, it was really wild! 1000 people, a huge mosh pit and a song where there’s only fog and strobe lights. I look into the audience and the next crowd surfer comes to the front. And he was really tiny, I thought “That's a small person!” When he was caught by security at the front, it was clear that they were a child. I guessed their age to be nine and then found out that they were six.
Swiss: What the…
Chris: Hmm… There was a father at the back with a child on his shoulders, who at some point gave his six-year-old son to the people, and then—imagine the size of Docks, Große Freiheit (venue in Hamburg)—let him surf from the very back over 1000 people to the front. If they fall down in the strobe/fog storm… Or if they fall onto the balustrade at the front and is not caught by security… They were caught! And then the child was sent out to the side, and then? What do you do as a six-year-old at the front in Docks? And look for your dad at the back? And then I asked myself, you can… Of course, you can organize events for people over 18 and things like that, but you can only suggest things to people. We actually do it like this: when families with children come, we tell the security to tell them “Please on your shoulders! Please only go to the back! Please stand at the side! Please not in the front row, so that the children don't stand with their chins on the edge of the stage or the railing!” Some people don't give a shit about it, or we didn't tell people “Don't let them crowd surf!” because my common sense simply says that six-year-olds don't have to crowd surf! Now the question for you: There's more action at your shows than at ours, when it comes to wild crowds. How do you see that? From what age, height or whatever, from what age is it OK to tell your child “Yeah, surf forward!” Or children at concerts in general?
Swiss: Oh well, Christian… *starts with a Berlin accent* That's how it is with us… We're southerners, you know? We take that—
Chris: And why do you speak like that?
Swiss: —I'm a southerner from Berlin, you know? We don't take anything so seriously!
Chris: Brandenburgers!
Swiss: This is so… So… I’ll find my kid! If they want to go to the front, then it's not a problem! Then there's no need to moan so much!
Chris: But they can also come back with a broken jaw.
Swiss: My goodness, it just happened. That was a great concert! *Said more ironically than seriously* My daughter for example: I don't know. What would have to happen in two years for her to want to come to a rock concert. Or a rap concert.
Chris: Yes, but even if you wanted to, you wouldn’t let your six-year-old—
Swiss: Nooo—
Chris: —surf to the front?! Or would you?
Swiss: No, I would not! As I said, I also think that some parents annoy and infiltrate their children too much with their own music—
Chris: Yes, and especially with this statement: “I will make sure that my child develops a good taste in music!”
Swiss: Yes, leave them to find… My daughter, I go with her to Lichterkinder (German music project for children's songs), a friend of mine does that.
Chris: Deine Freunde? (also a German music project for children’s and family songs)
Swiss: No, Lichterkinder.
Chris: But Deine Freunde is pretty good!
Swiss: Your friends don’t know bands for children (playing around with the name “Deine Freunde”, which means “your friends” in English) She’s too young for that.
Chris: That’s true, maybe later and Mika likes them! Super funny.
(Both quote two songs, one is called “Hausaufgaben”, the other one is called “Hausmeister.” Translation wouldn’t make sense in English at all)
Swiss: Deine Freunde are making stuff to sing along to, she really likes that and since I am a musician who does not have much financial—
Chris: What? What are you doing?
Swiss: I make music. But more private, you know. And then I met Flo, who does that, and I asked him for the guest list for me and my daughter—
Chris: Deine Freunde?
Swiss: No, Lichterkinder!
Chris: Ah, right!
Swiss: Dude, you don’t listen to me!
Chris: Yeah, no, sorry but it’s just… one of the guys from Deine Freunde is also named Flo, right?
Swiss: I don’t know!
Chris: Isn’t that the guy from “Echt?” (Echt was a German music band)
Swiss: No, I don’t know his name!
Chris: Bro! Man I—
Swiss: Please stop now with your Deine Freunde! I’m speaking about Lichterkinder!
Chris: Yeah, you are speaking of your Lichterkinder! You always have to bring this children topic…
Swiss: *sings a Lichterkinder song* This is what I’m talking about. I'll go to that show with her, hopefully for free, if Flo keeps his word.
Chris: Where is a band like that playing? For kids?
Swiss: They are playing—
Chris: A (VW Golf) GTI is driving past outside.
Swiss: —Stadtpark Open Air (Festival for all kinds of music and culture in Hamburg).
Chris: Ok.
Swiss: That's pretty big! They have Christmas songs; I think they had about 1.1 million monthly [listeners]. For children's music, that's pretty good.
Chris: Do they have a children's circle at the front? There's this dinosaur metal band called Heavy Saurus, where the children are at the front.
Swiss: Nope, well, whatever. That would interest her and otherwise I couldn't imagine my
daughter at Swiss & Die Andern or Lord of the Lost—
Chris: Yes, but that's why the question! Suppose you were in charge, you own a concert hall, you are the organizer of whatever. And you are forced, let's say by law, to set an age limit. And let’s say Swiss & Die Andern concert, Lord of the Lost concert… from what age? Because I'm currently trying to figure out whether we should put a barrier in front of it, which is a real shame for the families who come with their kids in a really cool way. They sit on the back of the parent's shoulders, when the children are tired, they go home, they are empathetic and cool. But we have a few things, that was just the tip of the iceberg with the crowd surfing six-year-old.
Swiss: Yes, the question is, how often does this happen?
Chris: Let's say it this way: at every concert we have kids at the front on the barrier, kids without ear protection next to the speakers and every time the security guys have to send them back because I, as a singer, don't want to say: “Go to the back!” And that was the tip of the iceberg, it has happened so often—*Swiss sneezes*—Bless you! —so often and as I said, there are only a few, because most of those who come with kids, we have a lot of families at our shows, they are at the back. That's why it's so unfair, but I think… Do you have to do that? Or do you have to tell people clearly right from the start: “Don't do that!” We can't build a children's area! If you have stadiums—
Swiss: What else do you want to tell people, bro? I always say at the beginning of the show I want—
Chris: Sure, is it fucked up!
Swiss: —What else do you want to say to people, bro? I always say at the beginning of the show that I want everyone to look out for each other. If I see a guy—we always do a security briefing beforehand and say “Hey, if any lady complains about that guy… get out! Get out immediately! Don't even talk to them! Get rid of him!”— “I want a mosh pit with women and men! I don't want you to behave like Neanderthals.”
Chris: We also do that!
Swiss: But what else do you want? “And kids please… and remember, if you have a level five disability card, then stay on the left side; and if you can't handle that much [alcohol], please get this and that, bro!” We always say: “Just do your shit, I'm doing my concert here…”
Chris: You're talking about adults, but we're talking about kids who can't decide that! The question is where—For me, there's a different limit! I don't want to tell people—we do these security briefings too, but when it comes to kids, I think “Fuck, dude…”
Swiss: At the end of the day, look, these kids are only getting in because they have a parent or guardian with them.
Chris: Yes, and that's the thing and when you say that's just—
Swiss: So I have to trust people to somehow bring up their children and the concert can't be the only example for that and I'm telling you, they will have to sort things out with their children too… take them to school, put something to eat on the table, put them to bed, put out fresh clothes for them now and then… do you understand? I always think “Guys, sorry, I can't do that too!” I also think it's too harsh to let your child crowd surf up there; I would probably have said something like: “Where are you picking up your child?” In Münster there were two girls in the front, they were a bit older, maybe 12 or 13, those CO2 cannons that we have up there, they're so loud!
Chris: Yeah!
Swiss: They are so loud! And one of them kept covering her ears when the cannons went off. So, I asked them if they wanted to sit to the side, up there with us on the stage. And the mother said “No!” and made a corresponding movement. I was like “OK, no problem, I understand.” Then the children said “Yes, yes, we want to sit to the side.” The mother said OK, but the mother stood right at the front, right by the railing, and the kids sat to the side. I try to react when I see something like that. Ultimately… It's just like… I don't know... A) You have to empower people to make their own decisions. And even if these are decisions that I don't always agree with, or that I would say are stupid… hey, in the end you have to make them for yourself somehow.
Chris: For me the problem is, it’s said—I don’t know, maybe you haven’t experienced it with such small kids yet. If you’re experiencing that and you’re standing on stage, and you see a child standing with—I don’t know, with their nose at the barrier, the people from behind are always pushing because there is a mosh pit, and you know: “okay, if one person shoves now, then the child will break their nose.”
Swiss: Yeah.
Chris: And if I myself from the stage say “please go to the back” then this child will think I’d send it away. And at so many shows we had this experience, when I’m standing on the stage there, I stop enjoying it. And that is not about me wanting to dictate someone something—
Swiss: I get what you mean, a hundred percent.
Chris: —but it’s solely about this “fuck, dude, I—we’re all always talking about a safe space and blah blah blah.” I as an artist would like to also just be an artist now and really go haywire, and not to worry all the time that the little one over there at the barrier is about to break her nose!
Swiss: But one can absolutely address that though. I address these things then I’ll say, like: “ey, everything okay with you over there at the front? Are you feeling un”— I mean, it’s not about saying: “alright, you’re going to the back now, you’re going to the back, you too, and especially you,” but it’s about: “ey is everything cool with you?” So with the two girls, for example, I think the mother was behind them.
Chris: Yeah, at 12, 13 years it’s yet a completely different thing, yeah…
Swiss: And [protected] them like a—you know, like, her arms around them, and was the buffer zone between them and the crowd.
Chris: Yes.
Swiss: Where I’m also thinking: “okay, if that’s fun for you…”
Chris: Yeah…Nope!
Swiss: I wouldn’t… *laughs*… place myself in the first row with my daughter, and then be in fighting mode for two hours.
Chris: Yeah.
Swiss: Uhm… but everyone has to decide for themselves somehow. And I’ll in fact address it when I have the feeling: “ey, that’s uncool now.” But honestly speaking, I have never seen that yet, even kids are always wearing ear protectors at our shows. But it—yeah, that is also—I don’t know.
Chris: That is—I don’t know, that’s the—that sounds stupid now… But it’s actually significantly more organised in for example Germany; there we rarely have these problems, there is a different perception there, and outside of Germany it’s just more wild. I mean, they give less of a shit about it.
Swiss: There I’m a bit jealous that I can only play in Germany.
Chris: Well, but everything is more wild there. Like, the adults are more wild, but also the way children are treated there is—and that’s where it gets—exactly, and we also say something then, but I usually let someone do it, that I send the securities over; because we also have these blocks where we’re sometimes playing five, six songs, we can’t just interrupt them. That means I have a sign for children that I show the crew, they go down there then and take care of it… But that is something that—since this crowd surfing six year old—that was something that weighed heavily on my mind, the fan also wrote very proudly on social media: “ey, and my six year old…” and so on, and then I also just thought “ey, bro…” Whatever.
Swiss: Ey, some people—I don’t know. Well, I haven’t had THAT yet, I rather have the feeling that at our shows the parents who have their kids with them… Well, first, we actually very frequently hear from parents that they are wary of bringing their children to us
Chris: Yes.
Swiss: —because they know about the rambunctiousness, and if someone asks me every now and then: “hey, can I [come] there with my eight-year-old—"
Chris: You also have the German—Sorry, your German lyrics that also every eight-year-old understands, they are partially near the knuckle—
Swiss: Yes yeees…
Chris: —where I think, our English ones—
Swiss: You don’t have to push that onto every child, I’m absolutely with you there. Someone wrote that too. “I was at Wiesbaden and it was an awesome concert and then at the merch I saw a father with a ‘Bullenwagen klauen und die Innenstadt demolieren’ shirt—
Chris: *Laughs wholeheartedly*
Swiss: —with his six year old child on his hand, and he’s yelling ‘Bullenwagen klauen und die Innenstadt demolieren, wir wollen[4]’… And the small child sings along!”
Chris: *Laughs so much that he coughs*
Swiss: “I, as a policewoman”—it was a woman— “feel [missing word] by that—we are doing much for society and…” blah, blub, and I had to laugh a bit because I thought, well, there are so many truths coming together there.
Chris: Yes, yes.
Swiss: So, A): absolutely. Right, so I don’t know if as the daddy, he could stop it and tell his child: “hey, we’re going to Swiss & Die Andern” and bring a few other topics forward for example, “look,”—
Chris: Yeah, it’s also a bit of theater and a bit of fun and so on.
Swiss: —And “how full of energy,” and “oh, look,” and “your favourite song, they are playing ‘Große Freiheit’ or whatever here,” and so on. Whether you have to do it that way, a hundred percent, on the other hand I think, well, if you as a policewoman are at a Swiss & Die Andern concert—
Chris: …It’s cool again.
Swiss: A): it’s cool, but B): you also know, sister, what you have to expect, dude. Right? That is—and as I said, I mentioned it last time, I’m working out by now with many police… women as well, and they are also really—with them, you can also make jokes that they are police officers.
Chris: Yes, yes.
Swiss: You know? So, with them you can also make fun of it, they make fun of me being… unemployed then—
Chris: *Laughs*
Swiss: —and still earn more money than my teachers.
Chris: “As than” [5].
Swiss: —As than my teachers. And, well, yeah, insofar—I don’t know. I—it changed anyway, right? Since the first shows that I can remember [compared] to now, it’s very—it feels like there are more things to pay attention to.
Chris: Yes.
Swiss: Back then it was so awesome, dude. Two people broke their nose, found it hilarious, everyone found it hilarious—
Chris: Yes, yes.
Swiss: —mic failed, everyone was crazy, there was a mosh pit there, one broke their foot, another one this, that…
Chris: One basically always came home with only one shoe.
Swiss: Awesome!
Chris: Yeah.
Swiss: And now it’s rather like: “hey, you’ve got responsibilities” and as you said, the venues are bigger, and somehow the indignation of the people is sometimes bigger then as well, about something. For me the very most important thing is really that I want concerts where—I don’t want to introduce this FLINTA [6] mosh pit, dude; in my opinion that’s not what it’s about, but for me it’s about having a mosh pit where men, women and everything in between can mosh equally, and take care of each other. You know?
Chris: Yes.
Swiss: And that it’s still wild, but that there are no Neanderthal actions. And I want every person to come to our concert with dignity and also to go with dignity and to feel respected by the others and—
Chris: Even though sometimes there are also Neanderthals on stage.
Swiss: And my impression—I did not hear that now, your snide remark—and my impression is that the people are very solitary as well; now I remember one situation from Erfurt, one person in the pit—do you know the situation where they all fall down together and then help each other up?
Chris: *Laughs*
Swiss: And one person had his glasses—I hadn’t even stopped, I just continued—had lost his glasses and then everyone was like: “hey wait!” and everyone [searched] with their mobile phones and looked for his glasses—
Chris: Okay, yes.
Swiss: —while others continued moshing, and I found that really sweet, and that— actually, with our audience that has always been my feeling.
Chris: We also tried the wall of love in slow motion.
Swiss: Inspired by Mortis? (Mortis is a German rapper with whom Swiss is friends and often tours)
Chris: Exactly, yes.
Swiss: Very good.
Chris: Inspired by Mortis, I have seen that—
Swiss: Awesome.
Chris: —but we tried that in slow motion, that the people run towards each other in slow motion, and that was very nice.
Swiss: For your fans that’s probably in real time, but that—I mean—
Chris: I don’t know what you…
Swiss: No, no, all good… Well, dude, and otherwise? How are you?
Chris: Yeah, I have one—It’s actually very nice that we’re currently talking about both bands and what makes them, because just earlier I picked up Mika from sports class; he does this sword-fighting stuff, and we always have a chat on the way back, and he asked: “Dad, what are you going to do today?” I was like: “well, I have to do a podcast with Swiss this evening instead of spending time with you, because in the morning he couldn’t be bothered [to do it]” and—
Swiss: You did—What kind of misinformation is that dude?
Chris: *Laughs loudly*
Swiss: You are really the Maximilian Krah of the… German… melodic… gothic scene dude! I have said—I most subserviently asked you to—
Chris: *Still laughs*
Swiss: I was like: “Hey, I would be happy if we [could do it] a bit later because”—
Chris: Can I tell you the truth? He finds it totally awesome that I’m not bothering him at home, but he can play Fortnite or something alone for an hour!
Swiss: Okay. It’s a bit difficult with a child, all these computer games and stuff, but you have to know. Go on?
Chris: Exactly. No, what I wanted to tell you, he said: “look, I thought about it for a bit, Lord of the Lost, as well as Swiss & Die Andern are actually platypuses.”
Swiss: Platypuses?
Chris: Can you make something of that?
Swiss: Yes, because at some point we can just… *makes a drinking noise* out of sippy cups.[7]
Chris: No, because he has—I was like: “Huh? What do you mean by that?” And he was like: “Well, it is somehow unique in its own way, especially because it is partially a non-classifiable mixture.” Platypuses are, from their genome, on one hand mammals, birds, and reptiles.
Swiss: Really? Why reptiles?
Chris: In their genome they are reptiles.
Swiss: Crazy.
Chris: At least so far. And to the outside they are mammals with a beaver body, but with a big bill like a duck, and they lay eggs.
Swiss: Okay.
Chris: They lay eggs, but then suckle their children.
Swiss: They really frighten me now. A bit.
Chris: Yes. And then he said: “Swiss & Die Andern and Lord of the Lost are platypuses”, and then we tried to analyse that a bit and went through what makes up Swiss & Die Andern musically, from punk over rap, up to… I don’t know, I also see so much early Nu Metal in it, from Papa Roach up to Limp Bizkit—
Swiss: *quietly* Can you also say, “a bit of Chili Peppers?”
Chris: Exactly and so—I’ll cut it in. *Louder* Chili Peppers!
Swiss: Yes? Ooh, interesting, I haven’t seen it like that yet, okay.
Chris: *Jokingly* Oh, exactly. Yes. Oh wow, and also a bit of Reinhard Mey (German singer-songwriter) from the quality of the lyrics…
Swiss: Yes, yes, Singer-songwriter.
Chris: Exactly.
Swiss: That’s what you mean by that. Exactly.
Chris: Exactly. And then we dissected Lord of the Lost for a bit, what he meant, well, all cringy genres that there are, mixed.
Swiss: Yes! Dude, all colours as well, in your make up, too.
Chris: Exactly!
Swiss: Something like that.
Chris: Exactly. But I found the comparison incredibly sweet, and I thought: “awesome!” If somebody says something like: “what kind of animal is the band?” it’s a totally stupid question for a personal description, a child’s mind is always so awesomely clever!
Swiss: Absolutely.
Chris: I thought: “awesome, platypus.”
Swiss: Yeah.
Chris: We are platypuses.
Swiss: Very, very good, dude. But you also have a very clever boy, it just has to be said.
Chris: Like all parents, I have the coolest boy, of course, that’s how it is, right? That’s normal.
Swiss: Ey, you can have the coolest boy.
Chris: Yah.
Swiss: I have—although, as I said, I already told you my opinion about that—
Chris: Yes. Did you?
Swiss: —my child, Christian, doesn’t have to become something special.
Chris: Yes? Werner?
Swiss: My child doesn’t have to—
Chris: It already IS something special. That’s what you mean?
Swiss: —especially intelligent—No! She will just inherit so damn much that she just won’t give a shit about whether she can do anything, because she will probably [missing words] on TikTok—No, I’m joking, but… I really mean that seriously, she just needs—I don’t have any demands of this child, except for her becoming an empathic human being. That she is friendly with others, that she can empathise with others and that she hopefully got born into a time where she has to do an involuntary social year.
Chris: An inv— implemented by me as the new German dictator!
Swiss: New German dictator! She will—
Chris: But that is very interesting that you are saying that, because that is also what I said to Mika the other day, that I said: “Look. A very important lesson for life: if someone asks you what you want to become later, stop assuming that the person means a job.”
Swiss: Yes.
Chris: You can also just say “happy.”
Swiss: Yes!
Chris: Like…
Swiss: Yes, totally! I mean… that is what it is about! Right? [About] somehow being happy, that is… I don’t know what else one should chase, and people are always chasing success and money and whatever because they think they would become happy from it. But it is not like that. I know people who—
Chris: Only for a small part, yes.
Swiss: Yes, it makes things easier, yeah—
Chris: Much money makes things much easier for a while—
Swiss: Yes.
Chris: —but real happiness, deep down, no.
Swiss: It is nice, it is nice to somehow—it makes things easier here and there, but basically, I have to say, I told you [about it], right? Recently I saw a clip of a 50 Cent interview, and there he said: “Hey. I always had fun. With no money I had fun, with a bit of money I had fun, with much money I have fun,” and that—
Chris: Is he still active, 50 Cent?
Swiss: Yes, he did a few German tours, and stuff, and impromptu played the Barclaycard Arena [8] and stuff.
Chris: No, but CDs, albums? I haven’t noticed in a long time.
Swiss: I think so, of course that’s—his prime, we don’t have to talk about that—
Chris: Yes, of course.
Swiss: —that’s over, but
Chris: That is like—sorry—like Eminem, going back to that topic, I checked that, I ALWAYS wanted to see it live, he played his last German concert SEVEN years ago or something. It has been an eternity!
Swiss: It was crap. I found it crappy back then.
Chris: I would still incredibly like to see it.
Swiss: And I was there in his prime. I was at the Anger Management tour at the Volksparkstadion.
Chris: I want to see it.
Swiss: And back then I found—The line-up, dude! Xzibit! Cypress Hill, 50 Cent, especially after “In da Club” was released!
Chris: Do you know the Xzibit song with Within Temptation (“And We Run”)?
Swiss: No.
Chris: A melodic gothic metal and Xzibit. I’ll show you. I’ll put it in the story.
Swiss: Okay.
Chris: It’s killer!
Swiss: Really?
Chris: Yes.
Swiss: Yes, he was also—Xzibit, I have to say, incredible stage presence.
Chris: He’s the “Pimp My Car” dude, right?
Swiss: Yes. Back then, he also—there is this legendary story, at Valentino’s, he got into a fist fight.
Chris: Valentino’s, Hamburg?
Swiss: Yes.
Chris: Ah, the one we talked about the other day.
Swiss: Yes.
Chris: Where we—
Swiss: with some “Kanacks” [9], dude, with some “Kanacks”, and he is said to have represented very, very much.
Chris: Oh, okay.
Swiss: So, he was there almost alone, with one, two guys, and apparently, he also had a gun—Something like that. Anyway, he was massively brave. And then there is the story of De La Soul—there is some line in one song: “you don’t wanna fuck with them, like we’re Hamburg Turkish guys.”
Chris: Oh!
Swiss: And then there is that story, they were in the Waagenbau (club in Hamburg) and of course back then, Germany felt like a third-world country for them—
Chris: Yes, yes.
Swiss: —and one is somewhere in Hamburg, and one comes from the USA, one is—
Chris: So, end of the ‘90s, start of the 2000s, right?
Swiss: —one is the king anyway, and they made a great fuss, and stepped on the toes of a few guys from our neighbourhood, and one of them vanished for a few hours then and came back badly beaten up and bruised and bleeding and with torn clothes and had probably been in a trunk for a few hours and somewhere in the woods and got brought into line, that’s the story.
Chris: Of De La Soul or what?
Swiss: One of De La Soul, and they are also rapping that later in what’s-it-called, and that’s why, well, hey, we talked about that recently! And that doesn’t just apply to Hamburg or Berlin or to big cities. That is what I always tell the boys too. I tell them—also always said that in the past: “in every village in which there is a group of 10, 15 boys who are brave, are angry, are drunk or carry a lot of hate… Dude, there…”
Chris: … is only one Werner.
Swiss: No! We are—among others—No, but we… dude, we don’t have to cause a fuss.
Chris: No, of course not.
Swiss: Because that is their home, that is their neighbourhood, that is their village… Let’s respect that.
Chris: Yes.
Swiss: And that is also how you have to walk through foreign streets, and by that I don’t just mean big places or big Kreuzbergs or St. Paulis or Bahnhofsviertel (Main station area), Frankfurt, but you have to pay respect to every street and every place in every village, in every town, because you don’t know who lives there, and—
Chris: Just don’t be an asshole. *Laughs*
Swiss: No! Right. And that’s what I mean. And there I have seen a lot [of people] who overestimated themselves.
Chris: That is a nice closing word, right?
Swiss: Christian. I wish you a… you are going be here for now, right?
Chris: I’m going to be here for now, we will have our next show at the ESC finale, I can report from it next time.
Swiss: Where is that?
Chris: Malmö.
Swiss: Can I come there?
Chris: You can do that.
Swiss: When is it?
Chris: On the 10th of May; you are playing then yourself, right?
Swiss: I’m playing myself then, what a pity.
Chris: Because I’ve also checked, I still wanted to watch a tour show of yours.
Swiss: Yes.
Chris: The closest one was also on the 10th of May, I believe, somewhere. Not that far away, but I—
Swiss: Yeah.
Chris: Cologne or something, I don’t know.
Swiss: No, but at open air we will probably see each other.
Chris: Hello? Honestly?
Swiss: We’re doing that often, too.
Chris: We deliberately—yes, please. We have a festival week before your open air; and we also could have played a festival on the 17th of August. And I told Ludwig, our booker, yours and my booker: “On that day we won’t play, we all want to go to Swiss.”
Swiss: Awesome.
Chris: That means we will specifically arrive a day earlier because we all want to be there.
Swiss: Awesome. I’m looking forward to that. We’ll also drink together there, right?
Chris: Yes, totally. WITH sparkling water!
Swiss: Dude, whoa, crazy!
Chris: Yes.
Swiss: That—hey folks, if he says that, you know…
Chris: Then he does it.
Swiss: [There is] a lot of caution required.
Chris: *Laughs* Alright. Have a nice evening, bye!
[1]: The German word "Sabbelwasser" (“babble water”) is sometimes said (often in a rude way) to say that someone is talking a lot (as if they have drunk some kind of liquid that causes the drinker to become talkative).
[2]: This is a bit of a pun. The “freiwilliges soziales Jahr” (“voluntary social year”), short “FSJ” is a time where young people can work in social or charitable establishments like hospitals, nurseries, retirement homes, etc. after graduating from school. It usually lasts for a year but can technically be from six months up to 18 months. Until 2011, men had to do a compulsory military service for 12 months, but could choose civil services instead, which was the same as the FSJ. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntary_social_year There are discussions about implementing a mandatory social year, which is what is being discussed here.
[3]: An AfD politician who sparked controversies due to his political stances, his speeches (to a point where even the right-wing AfD prohibited him from holding speeches), employing a potential spy and potentially being corruptible. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximilian_Krah
[4]: The lyrics “steal cop cars and demolish the city centre, we want to…” belong to the song “Bullenwagen” by Ferris, Shocky and Swiss & Die Andern, produced by Chris Harms and Benjamin Lawrenz.
[5]: It’s a common mistake in German to use “wie” (“as”) instead of “als” (“than”), when comparing things that are different, so it became a common joke to say “als wie” (“as than”), making it deliberately more wrong.
[6]: “FLINTA” stands for “Frauen, Lesben, inter, nicht-binäre, trans und agender Personen”, meaning “women, lesbians, intersex, nonbinary, trans and agender people”; and at the Reeperbahn Festival in Hamburg a band had a mosphit for everyone except cis men for a few minutes, saying that cis men often take much space and that other people can have a moshpit without the danger of drunk cis men.
[7]: It is a word play, because “Platypus” is called “Schnabeltier” (“beak/bill animal”) in German, while a sippy cup is called “Schnabeltasse” (“beak/bill cup”).
[8]: A venue in Hamburg able to host up to 16,000 people: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barclays_Arena
[9]: This does not mean the Polynesian Kanak people, but he said “kanacks” like an English word as a way to show that he doesn’t mean the slur “Kanacken” for immigrants from the south in seriousness.
Translation: Margit Güttersberger, Elisabeth «Kurojuki» Czermack, Jeany Fischer, Jari Witt
Proofreading: Helen Forsyth