Swiss+Harms #3: Verändere Dich!
Episode 3 – Change (yourself)!
Swiss und Harms – Zwischen Tour und Angel
(translator’s note: in German you literally say, “between door and hinge” for “in passing,” they altered it to “between tour and hinge”)
Description of the episode:
In today’s episode, Chris and Swiss speak with their inner children and they also give one or two valuable parenting tips. Oh, and then they also find out that some nights last 15 years. It almost sounds like a horror special, but it's not! However, it's worth tuning in and, if you're really cool, leave a like and a 5-star rating.
Swiss: What’s up, folks? Swiss and Harms, the third episode, today from St. Pauli again. We’re sitting here together in rainy Hamburg, we didn’t see each other for two weeks, we deliberately didn’t talk either, um, we are here, we have brought many topics, I have at least…
Chris: Too many actually. But that’s nice, it means we will be able to do some more episodes.
Swiss: Exactly. Chris and I always do this thing, we—I come in here, and we really don’t talk with each other.
Chris: I go, “Ey, how are you doing?” … he goes: “Ask me that later, ask me later!”
Swiss: I was just going to tell him something, and he goes, “Nooo, don’t say it!” There’s just one thing I briefly want to say—
Swiss: We have this “additional podcast name” matter going on, in the meantime I have totally gotten into the groove for “Zwischen Tour und Angel” (see explanation at the title). I don’t know if it’s so popular with everyone now, but I think – “Swiss und Harms—Zwischen Tour und Angel” —you are on tour a lot, I enjoy fishing… (the German word for “Hinge” is the same as for “Fishing rod”) —do you understand?
Chris: Yeah. And I also found the angels-topic— (the German words for hinge and for fishing rod are spelt the same way as the English word “angel”)—it was the same with me, I got stuck on “Muss man die kennen” (Does one have to know them?) and “Zwischen Tour und Angel”, but as it is an additional name, and I imagine if you do that announcement text at the beginning, “A warm welcome to Swiss and Harms—Does one have to know them?”, it’s always like… it’s a bit too much comedy for me…
Swiss: Exactly, and it somehow is a joke, that is “haha” once…
Chris: Exactly, and if you say, “A warm welcome to Swiss and Harms, Zwischen Tour und Angel,” that somehow always sounds like… it is funny, it is somehow like a stupid Dad Joke Pun; we are old enough for that, but it’s still also really cool somehow.
Swiss: And it is also simply true, I mean, we will be traveling a lot this year.
Chris: Do a lot of fishing and a lot of touring *laughs*
Swiss: Do a lot of fishing, you know, I will be fishing in Canada for six months this year, and you will be on tour for six years…
Chris: This year I will be fishing for 13 months. Oh, that would be nice.
Swiss: Yeah, that would be cool. That’s why I think, the name fits— “Swiss und Harms—Zwischen Tour und Angel.” Thank you for your submissions, thank you for joining in the discussion; that was a lot of fun, there were a lot of cool ideas there, unfortunately we didn’t – though, “Tour und Angel”—
Chris: “Tour und Angel” was actually my idea, I have had it for ages…
Swiss: You are simply a brilliant guy, Christian.
Chris: Yeah. But it fits really well here, but I found incredibly—I found incredibly many things funny and inspiring, really good. So now I will do—on my iPad Plus Maxi—wait, I think, you can hear that! Was that audible? I’ve ticked that off blatantly (Chris pretends to check off the chosen name on an imaginary fancy iPad).
Swiss: Um…
Chris: How are you doing?
Swiss: How am I doing? That’s a good…
Chris: Like, how are you really doing? That was for me…
Swiss: That’s a good question. In fact, I'm on top form here today; I slept very, very well, last night I binge-watched a series for a long time— “Yellowstone,” (an American neo-Western prime time television soap opera). I don’t know if you know it…?
Chris: Me too!
Swiss: “Yellowstone”? How great is that series?
Chris: Totally great!
Swiss: It’s like a mix of “Succession” —did you watch “Succession”?
Chris: Nope. But I… I know, what it is.
Swiss: You have to watch Succession.
Chris: Yeah.
Swiss: And it is so … I am somehow… it maybe fits into something that we can maybe discuss later; Kevin Costner is such a motherfucker… he had some of the biggest flops among his movies…
Chris: Yeah
Swiss: Like “Waterworld,” which I didn’t find that bad actually—
Chris: I find “Waterworld” really cool.
Swiss: —on which he spent all his money, and then there’s things like “Dances with Wolves,” such legendary movies…
Chris: Above all, he's the kind of actor, a bit like Clint Eastwood, he doesn't need to say much. He does a lot just with his face, through his facial expressions.
Swiss: I’m at Season 3, episode 8 now… I think, I have watched it in just four days.
Chris: I think I finished season 4 last night.
Swiss: Where is the fourth season available at?
Chris: It’s only available to buy from Amazon.
Swiss: Okay. So…
Chris: The rest was available somewhere else.
Swiss: So, I will… from all the podcast revenues, that we have already collected—
Chris: I was about to… I wanted to talk about podcasts and money later.
Swiss: Exactly, we have to talk about that, we are Germans after all, we have to talk about it.
Chris: What I find good about “Yellowstone” —you never know for sure, if this series is totally American patriotic, or does it also want to criticize, or both – or does it just simply want to… does it want to show these two worlds colliding in a completely neutral way? “Make something out of it yourself”? I am sometimes not sure about that.
Swiss: Yes. It totally makes me want to... So, first of all: how beautiful is Montana apparently?
Chris: Cool.
Swiss: Ey, how beautiful is Montana?
Chris: Yes.
Swiss: And I see... I've been on equestrian sites recently, checking out where there are these leather- you know, they have these pants with these extensions…
Chris: These chaps, exactly.
Swiss: These chaps.
Chris: Here in St. Pauli, there are quite a lot of sex shops, which sell these things.
Swiss: Yeah, meanwhile I am really interested in such things, so… a really cool series, I can totally recommend it.
Chris: Have you ever ridden a horse?
Swiss: I have actually... My (female) cousins in Switzerland were not only very good skiers, but also really fit riders, at least one of them, and once I have…
Chris: I’m really sorry, I have to laugh now.
Swiss: Just laugh, if what I’m saying here somehow contradicts your hetero-normative image of men, sure thing, Christian!
Chris: I’m 44 and if I hear about your (female) cousins and good riders and… I just can’t help it, I simply am—I simply am incredibly stupid, when it comes to humor.
Swiss: That’s “old white man’s humor,” you’ve got pictures in your head, that we don’t even want to hear about.
Chris: I know.
Swiss: She once asked me if I wanted to come along on one of these rides. I actually got on an old horse and somehow trotted along. And that was really cool. I must admit that I have a lot of respect for these creatures…
Chris: That’s why I am asking, as I cannot …
Swiss: Really?
Chris: I stand next to a horse—and I already found pony rides bad earlier.
Swiss: I have once seen… I had a friend, ages ago, who was a riding instructor in her youth, had a horse share or similar. I once picked her up at the stable, and I watched as someone got—they also groom the horses, these monsters, after riding and that horse kicked that person so badly with the rear hooves, he flew away like two meters. Ever since I am totally respectful towards—I would never walk behind a horse, that’s why…
Chris: It’s a ton of muscles, right?
Swiss: Respect. And the wildest thing about it is you haven’t got them under control. They have…
Chris: Only to a very limited extent, yes.
Swiss: And I mean, there are riding accidents, which are partly also… I’m sorry folks, I need to—
Chris: For all of you who are into ASMR: Swiss is taking off his Nylon shirt now—I’ll turn the volume up extra loud for that.
Swiss: It’s so sexy when I undress like this here! So, ey— “Yellowstone” —definitely a recommendation. I can just say: “Succession” —a recommendation, “Ted Lasso” —a recommendation, “For All Mankind” —a recommendation. I have watched a lot of series over the winter. Do it.
Chris: To conclude the topic of “horse riding” for me: Nobody is going to get me onto a horse. Someone from my family, my closest family, got all their teeth in the upper jaw knocked out by a horse, and I know how long it took to get that halfway right again, so I…I…
Swiss: When will you get your teeth done, I wonder, because…?
Chris: You mean, because… the golden ones, or what? You always lend me your strange black false teeth for the—
Swiss: Nope, your overbite.
Chris: What over–? *Apparently mimics an overbite*
Swiss: That would be an underbite.
Chris: I briefly want to resolve something, the “Three stories – one lie,” which I mentioned last week. I said, either I shat myself once because of diarrhea while I worked as a lecturer, washed my pants in the basin and proceeded to teach in wet pants for the rest of the day; or I was caught driving a car on a parking lot with my Dad at sixteen and we got arrested; or when I was very young I once unknowingly had a thing with an eighteen year-old and her mother at the same time, which was awkward when it all came out… Which of these is not true or only half true, is the story with my father – you were right.
Swiss: I told you so.
Chris: The thing is: we were—I was 17, we were not taken away by the police, we only got caught, exactly. That was only half true. Half a lie.
Swiss: I—I somehow “smelled” it, and I’m not particularly referring to the story with your underpants. No, but …
Chris: You can tell when I’m lying.
Swiss: Look, it’s human. Who hasn’t had this happen to them yet?
Chris: What exactly, the situation with the mother and the daughter or…?
Swiss: No, I actually have… I so WANTED this one to be true.
Chris: Yeah.
Swiss: ‘cause those are the kind of stories where you think—
Chris: This will end up in the biography later.
Swiss: — “Woah, that’s cool! Did you hear about what Christian did?”
Chris: But about the other thing… that was really bad… that crapping myself.
Swiss: This has happened to me on a mountain, while I was hiking. I burned my underpants in a fire then, as there also was a barbeque there *laughs*.
Chris: Diarrhea in the wrong moment is such a bitch, dude!
Swiss: But it’s human, so… I often get asked, “What is Missglückte Welt about?” —and for me it means—
Chris: Crapping yourself while hiking.
Swiss: Yes, that also, crapping yourself while hiking. “Missglückte Welt” means that we as humans are imperfect, that we are building shit in the truest sense of the word, and that we all have skeletons in our cupboards, but that it’s all a part of being human, this imperfection, and…
Chris: Now I can laugh about it, but at that moment it was really bad, dude.
Swiss: Yes of course, it’s horrible, no question about it, but—that’s what we’ll be facing again in 20 years’ time.
Chris: Of course, yes.
Swiss: But by then we’ll have a young civil service boy that we can bother with that.
Chris: That’s what you get children for, so that they can change your diapers later— “Do you know, how long I did that for you?”
Swiss: Exactly, I said that to my daughter, too, I say, “Don’t worry, one day you’ll do that for Daddy!”
Chris: What did she say?
Swiss: She couldn’t speak yet then.
Chris: *laughs*
Swiss: Now she would say, “Nope, never ever!”
Chris: *in a little girl’s tone* Nope!
Chris: I have watched your new video, “Drive By.”
Swiss: Cool!
Chris: I think it's visually awesome, because I remembered—it's funny—I remembered it like this really funny mixture of the self-made mobile phone cam class trip video that I shot back in 1999 in Rome, when we were on an art trip, because it has a similar flair with this mobile phone cam look and the Gucci movie, with Lady Gaga and the Star Wars guy.
Swiss: Because of my Gucci-Slippers, right?
Chris: Also because of the overall “feeling” somehow. That was somehow really nice—but, yes, exactly—Gucci Slippers. Swiss has Gucci Slippers, I'd like to put that up for discussion here, what do you think about that? Really not punk at all.
Swiss: That’s really not punk.
Chris: I found it really… I found it cool. I only knew Lost Boy Lino because of you, when you suddenly said, “We’re doing a guest contribution” —and for those of you, who don’t know —I’m a bit involved with the production in the studio with Swiss—
Swiss: A bit more than that, one could say…
Chris: Exactly. And then there was… I only got the audio tracks and thought, “Now who’s that, no idea” —saw, that it’s “Lost Boy Lino,” he has a huge amount of followers, where does he come from? I didn’t know him at all, I have done proper research.
Swiss: I think he originally comes from Stuttgart, and like everybody from Stuttgart, he has now moved to Berlin.
Chris: Okay.
Swiss: I actually had—two or three years ago, Martin told me to go check him out, he also does—these guitar—these trap beats with the guitar, guitar music, a bit of grunge,
Chris: A bit like Machine Gun Kelly, but in German?
Swiss: Well, no, it’s something different. Rather—to my mind—Nirvana-ish. And back then I have—I am sometimes…
Chris: But with Rap, or…?
Swiss: Yes, but rather singing. It is more singing. And back then I somehow did not not—I dunno, I—you know, sometimes you have phases, when you just can’t deal with so many new things.
Chris: I have these a lot.
Swiss: So, I said, “Yeah, I’ll check him” —and then I saw him at the “Highfield” (Festival in Germany), and Martin said, “You need to check that, it’s really cool!” —and they also had their backstage right next to us there, and we were…
Chris: Is he on the road with a live band or with a DJ or…?
Swiss: Yeah, they play… there are things coming off the tape, he has a guitarist and a drummer, I think.
Chris: And is he now support or special guest with you?
Swiss: Exactly.
Chris: Within your set or how does it work?
Swiss: No, he does… Ferris does a Rap Set before our show, and then he also plays a set. And I’m totally looking forward to that, because … right, I checked it out then and I thought…I like everything that somehow expands the guitar cosmos—that's why I'm so happy about the Alligatoah (German musician) album, whether it's metal or not—
Chris: Doesn’t matter.
Swiss: He's always done something with guitars, but I, as a member of a guitar-dominated band, same as you, believe that everything that expands the guitar cosmos, is cool and that makes it bigger is good for the whole scene and that's why I listened to Lost Boy Lino and thought: "Wow, that's cool, that's really, really cool!" and um, yes, well, we'll definitely see this man coming in the next few years.
Chris: But I'm always happy about it, especially in rap, and it's quite funny because my son said the other day - he's really into Eminem right now. I don't know why; it just came to me all of a sudden.
Swiss: That’s that newcomer, right?
Chris: He said: "Hey Daddy, what I think is so cool about it is that there are always these... there are always these guitar things in there. And it's not like that... it's not just rap, and when he speaks like that, he always speaks so melodically, I can't even describe it!" And he's really into it, and I'm also a big Eminem fan, since the late 90s.
Swiss: Eminem got me into Rap. I had previously ... I couldn't identify so much with the texts that ... you know, it was very much this "Ey, we hang out here and smoke weed and Moin, Diggi (slang equivalent to "bro"), and good energy, and…”
Chris: And also, a lot of bling bling…
Swiss: That came later, but in the beginning, there was this... this Eimsbush time, there you could…
Chris: Ah, you’re talking about German Rap now
Swiss: German Rap, exactly.
Chris: Exactly, from—
Swiss: Exactly. I couldn't really ... I couldn't really locate it or connect to it. And in Eminem I just totally—this sounds a bit over the top now, but it was like—I could somehow see myself in Eminem. I also grew up as the only boy in my street who wasn't of Turkish origin and...
Chris: That is a topic in that one song of yours, which I recently worked on, an old song of yours—
Swiss: Exactly. “Scheißegal” (Don’t give a shit), which is also on the “Best of”
Chris: Exactly.
Swiss: I was the only German boy at our soccer field in Duschweg (street in Hamburg), and I totally knew that feeling, which later on when I was in the “Haus der Jugend” (House of Youth), you always had the feeling that you somehow had to achieve something, that you had to stand out in some way, to be accepted. And there I could totally identify myself with Eminem, you know. That really... also this anger in the lyrics - that was very, very wild. And I can totally relate to that, and I also think it's such timeless music. I’m not into his new stuff at all…
Chris: Me neither! I stopped listening to it at “Phenomenon” or “Phenomenal” …?
Swiss: I don’t know that one.
Chris: Yeah. Okay.
Swiss: Yeah, ey!
Chris: I just wanted to briefly say one more thing about “Drive by”: when this video, which so oddly somehow … which is so oddly trashy but also flaunts and plays with senseless wealth—I found it very nice, that right after it, even though I have YouTube Premium, so that I do not have to watch advertisements, an advertisement started to play, about a guy by the name Deven Schuller, I needed to write that down, about his book “Finanzelite” (Financial elite) *laughs*
Swiss: Really?
Chris: And that advertisement started like this: “Did you help build up Germany?” but…then something came in the like of … I watched the whole 3 minutes of him going from—I don't know, from Zero to Hero ... so: “Deven Schuller, financial elite”. I watched... this is a book he's giving away for free…
Swiss: I wonder why.
Chris: For postage costs only. I've decided that I'm going to get it before the next episode—
Swiss: Okay.
Chris: And highlight a few good approaches in yellow.
Swiss: Drop a few quotes, yes.
Chris: Exactly. So much for that.
[16:24]
Swiss: Cool. Yes, I find all these finance people on the internet, they are sooo blatantly sympathizers, aren’t they?
Chris: Super. *Uses the same ironic undertone as Swiss before*
Swiss: So, I really think, well—
Chris: There is this finance punk, what was his name?
Swiss: Ok, I don’t even know.
Chris: I need to check that.
Swiss: These are definitely those guys—
Chris: He is an investment banker who says he’s a punk and he wants to—
Swiss: I see.
Chris: Well, never mind.
Swiss: —Where you really feel like, um, a) trusting them with your money and people know that they can probably guess, we both have a loooot of money now.
Chris: Yes.
Swiss: And we’re still going with that, so, you know…
Chris: How is it, this podcast… It was commented the other day, and I just got another message on Instagram. It wasn’t a comment, it was a message that actually said I should please concentrate on music because I’m already rich enough and I don’t need to somehow rip everyone off with a podcast to enrich myself. How rich have you gotten from this podcast so far?
Swiss: Well, the Gucci shoes for the video, which was the podcast. The first three minutes.
Chris: M-hm.
Swiss: You might have to, ey…
Chris: Yes, no, but seriously. We really need to talk about podcasts and money.
Swiss: I don’t know, I’m not really a fan of explaining myself—
Chris: Of course not. That’s stupid.
Swiss: —you can basically say to people: Guys, with podcasts, as long as you don’t advertise or anything like that, you’re not making any money. So, —
Chris: Yes, and even then. You have to have sooo many clicks to get money from it.
Swiss: Exactly. And even if we did, guys, well, you can assume that whatever we do, Chris and I do this podcast first and foremost because we want to do it. So, now we didn’t want to open up a new, sick line of business. If so, we’d rather consult the book by the, the—
Chris: Deven Schuller1.
Swiss: Deven Schuller. *Both discuss the pronunciation of his name*—rather consult it. Exactly. So, look. Take a look. We had, maybe I can put this in briefly—
Chris: Yes, please.
Swiss: —we asked yesterday what people might need to talk about. So, whether there are topics where people say: “Hey, we’d like to hear that from you. Your opinion on it.”
Chris: The question is like this: “Guys, you don’t have an opinion, you need one, we’ll give you one. So, tell us which one we should give you...”
Swiss: Exactly.
Chris: Ok, good.
Swiss: In other words, the way the internet works.
Chris: Exactly.
Swiss: And you and I, our opinion is iconic…
Chris: Form my opinion by yourself. (Pun of the slogan “BILD dir deine Meinung” (“Form your own opinion”) of the German BILD magazine, which is known for its populistic style)
Swiss: Form my opinion by yourself. And I have here… I found a voicemail, it’s a bit longer, but maybe we can take a minute.
Chris: Yep.
Swiss: There was a lot of stuff in there that made me think: “Nah….” So, first of all, thanks for sending so much, that’s really cool…
Chris: Is it ok to name who this is from, or should it remain anonymous?
Swiss: Um…I think I would keep that anonymous.
Chris: Ok, good.
Swiss: Not that we…
Chris: Ok, let’s say it his way: She, 43 years old, Bitterfeld…
Swiss: Get sued again. It’s a colleague, I’ll turn it on now and see if we can hear anything.
*Voicemail start* “A question about the podcast…Or I don’t even know if it’s a question, maybe It’s just a thought, but in the song ‘Hauptsache’ by Swiss, you say, referring to your child: “You’re already everything to me, you don’t have to become anything...” And that’s a very cool line, I definitely feel that. My question would be: from your point of view, how do you teach that to a child? Not as parenting advice or something, but from a philosophical point of view. We all know that we somehow tick differently and don’t fit in so well and it’s not unlikely that your child will feel the same way and that social expectations will come crashing down at some point and they’ll still have the feeling that they have to become something because everyone expects it.” *Voicemail end*
Swiss: Well, I thought it was quite nice because—
Chris: Sorry, I have to interrupt you. He put it so beautifully in words and…sometimes I hate my empathy for making me cry by just listening to that.
Swiss: Really?
Chris: Because it moved me so much to realize how much your song moved him, how much it made him think and that you get all that back in just one comment. I love the internet in moments like that.
Swiss: Yes, and I think that’s a good point where we, because there were also a lot of questions in the comments: “How do you deal with shitstorms?”, so I think people have a few questions or would like to get impressions of how a, I’ll put that in quotation marks, musician’s “career” works. At least ours. And…well, I liked the question so much, because the question is a bit about what we give our children and, um, I think everyone has a different opinion on that, of course. I’m just very keen with my daughter not to burden her with my own narcissism in any way. Do you understand? So, there is this book—
Chris: For example?
Swiss: Well, there’s this book “The Drama of the Gifted Child,” for example, it’s also about our parents having to deal with the things they didn’t achieve, so… I don’t know, your father wanted to be a singer, didn’t manage it and everything he does to you in your childhood somehow plants this desire in you—which isn’t yours at all, but your father’s—to have to become a singer or whatever. And I think I want my daughter… or I hope that we can give her that, that she gets a very, very good feeling for her own wishes. So that she develops a very good compass for what she wants and what she doesn’t want. That it has nothing to do with my wishes or her mother’s wishes, but that she is very good at listening to herself, you know? And that she is learning to live life to a certain extent according to the pleasure principle and not the fear principle. Yes, so my biggest wish for my daughter, apart from that she does martial arts… *both are laughing*. Apart from that she does martial arts—but she doesn’t want to do it at all—is that she, and I think that’s the biggest thing children can develop, is that she finds something in her life that she enjoys. And I’m very grateful that I found something early in life, where I realized, that this is my thing. And I would very, very much like her to do that and I’m totally behind that. And that’s why I don’t try to influence her, even with judgement. That’s good, that’s bad, that’s right, that’s wrong—
Chris: To be able to assess this for the people outside, how old is your daughter now? Do you want to say it?
Swiss: Yes, she’s four and that’s… Of course, you also have to educate and say things like “That’s not good.” Or not really “That’s not good” or… I try to solve that more through empathy. To say: “How would you feel if someone took your lunch box away from you?” and so on and so forth. If I do, then it’s more about empathy and then I hope that I can always encourage her in everything that makes her happy and that’s what I mean with that line “You’re already everything to me, you don’t have to become anything.” So, she doesn’t have to do anything to make me happy, you know? So, if she, I don’t know, if she’s a cashier at REWE (a German supermarket brand) at 30, which is a totally honorable job, and—
Chris: As long as it’s not ALDI (another supermarket brand), but REWE you mean *he chuckles*—
Swiss: Exactly.
Chris: —No, but I know what you mean.
Swiss: Preferably at PENNY (again a supermarket brand). Joke. So, if she has a totally, in quotation marks, “normal” job and has a happy personal life and is just a happy person with everything she’s doing, then I’m soo happy. So, she doesn’t have to stand out in any way with any kind of amazing achievements or achieve anything special or be a daughter that I can show off, you know? “Oh, look what she’s done here again!” But for me the most important thing is that she finds something that makes her happy – and that would make me the happiest – and that she stays happy for the rest of her life.
Chris: I see it exactly the same way. I would also like to briefly share a few things, a few experiences. You’ll probably already know them because we’ve been talking about children for many years now. Ever since we’ve known each other. My son is now 12, almost 13, and I want to say a few things, but then I have a question that I ask myself, because at some point the time will come, I’ll come back to that later. When you said: “You don’t have to become anything and you don’t have to become like your dad or your parents,” I always have to think so blatantly of these beauty pageants in the USA, for example. These modelling competitions for children or these casting shows. I was just at the ESC preliminary again at the weekend as a guest, where there are also people in their early 20s and where I asked myself: “do they all want this or were they pushed there by their parents?”, but that’s a different topic. And I actually had this experience with Mika when he was 5 or 6, he didn’t even go to school yet. And then he asked me: “Daddy…” I realized he was struggling to ask me something. He said: “Dad, is it bad if I don’t become a musician?” And I thought: “Wow…did I somehow give him the feeling that he should?” Then I asked: “Do you have the feeling that I want that? Did I force you to do something?” He didn’t even play an instrument back then, but it’s always a topic in our home. Of course, music, music, music. But then he said: “No, you didn’t, but you love it so much. And maybe you’d be happy if I loved it too...” Then I said: “No, of course you don’t have to.” And I thought it was so empathetic and sweet of him to ask me that. I said: “Why are you asking me that?” He was like: “Because I don’t want you to be disappointed if I tell you something now.” And I said: “Ok, what do you want to tell me?” And he’s like: “Dad, I don’t want to be a musician.” And I’m like: “Mika, that’s okay.”
Swiss: And you go: “Yippie!” *laughs*
Chris: And I told him the same thing. And he was already smart enough at the age of 5 or 6 to realize that and I think it actually came from the fact that he… we made a music video with Lord of the Lost back then, where kids played the band, and he played the singer. I think that’s where he got that feeling. It was all very playful. And then I said to him: “No, of course you don’t have to become that, but I’m happy if you become what you want to do.” Then I asked him: “What do you want to do?”
Swiss: Nah, I only checked if you speak enough into the microphone.
Chris: I see. Then I asked: “What do you want to do?” And he says: “I want to build robots that save the world.”
Swiss: Awesome!
Chris: I said: “Alright. And I’ll support you in that.” And his current career aspirations aren’t that far away from that, with programming and game design and character design. Maybe he’ll end up with a robot that saves the world after all, even if it’s a computer game. And the most important thing I gave him was that I said: “Mika, I’ll support you in this and if you want something else tomorrow, I’ll support you in that, too. Because you’re 5 and you’ll eventually be 10, eventually 12, you’ll be 17… And something like ‘Stay as you are’ is an insult to me, not a compliment. But change whenever you want...” And that’s what I always try to tell him.
Swiss: May I ask you a question?
Chris: Yes, please.
Swiss: If today you can help little Christian, who is somehow totally insecure about his life, who is perhaps just starting out with music or is perhaps already at the point where he would like to earn a living with music later on. Now in retrospect, what would you say to little Christian?
Chris: This question is totally interesting, this “Could-have-would-have-been-if, how can you influence that” and I’ve been asked that a lot in music… in music videos, sure *chuckles*… in interviews, but I actually have to say I wouldn’t say anything. Because even the mistakes I’ve made and the shit times I’ve gone through, I could have shortened them with short cuts, with some tip from me from the future. I think I had to do that to be who I am now and I… now we’re getting into some “time travelling parallel universe/ parallel realities” topic… I don’t want to be somewhere else now and be more successful and stuff, because I’ve given myself a tip. I wouldn’t… would you want to change in hindsight?
Swiss: No, it’s not about changing, I think it’s more about… There’s always this discussion in psychology about “we have to reconcile with our inner child” and I’ve thought about it and I think if I were to say something to the little Werner, who is laughed at for his first rap lyrics but who would like to continue his music career, I think one thing I would say is: “Don’t worry so much.”. And when I look back on—
Chris: Very briefly, that’s a great song topic and that’s what the song should be called: “Don’t worry so much.” The way you talk to your little Werner. In past tense. It’s actually a great idea.
Swiss: It sounds a bit perverse: “The way you talk to your little Werner” *laughs*
Chris: Yes, yes, that’s how you want to see it now. Okay.
Swiss: No, well, when I look back on the time since I started making music, there have been many, many phases in which I, well… Even as an adult, when I didn’t earn a cent from music, but only paid for it, there were many, many phases in which I worked a lot and put a lot into it, and nothing came back. So—
Chris: Rather the opposite.
Swiss: —the reward principle didn’t work at all, and I’ve always been very… Of course, that made me realize, I was in my late 20s: “you haven’t learned anything, you’ve done a pointless study, you’re not earning any money”—
Chris: You studied something with German, didn’t you?
Swiss: I studied German Studies with a focus on theatre, media, and history.
Chris: A history it was.
Swiss: Exactly. That’s just the way it is, unfortunately, it really has to be said, the humanities in Germany… you can’t do anything with them unless you do a teaching degree.
Chris: But doesn’t it help you nowadays with some knowhow?
Swiss: I don’t think so. So, I have no idea. In the end, it helped me because I pushed through with something, after 10 years of long-term study, but I could have done the taxi license straight away. I would know…
Chris: Fortunately, you have that now.
Swiss: Fortunately, I have now done so. I wouldn’t know what I would do if it hadn’t worked out with making music. And of course that’s a component that often kept me awake. So, I remember when I—
Chris: Of course it did.
Swiss: Ey, look, I was 29 and I was like: “Ey…”, you know? There’s also a nice quote from “Yellowstone.” He asks a woman: “Why do I always end up with cowboys and dreamers?”, and I think at a certain point, even in adulthood, you have to realize: “Okay, you have this dream of doing this and that, but you also have to do something somehow to earn a living.” And I remember back then, here at Eric Burton’s (Head of Artist Management & Promotion at Celsius Management), I was nagging him to give me an advance. A small advance so that I could try making music for a year.
[32:04]
Chris: Eric Burton did a lot for you; without Eric Burton we wouldn't have done the ESC at all. He said, "Chris, come on, try again."
Swiss: Yeah! Very cool guy, greetings at this point!
Chris: And above all, thank you very much for so many things!
Swiss: Absolutely! He really saw something and—
Chris: He told me about how he saw you for the first time as a towel rapper (means at the very beginning of his career) in the Kaiserkeller (music club in Hamburg, located in the basement of Große Freiheit 36).
Swiss: *laughs* Towel rapper… Yes, and it was crazy because I showed him the demos and said, "Look, I need so much money to not have to work for a year." And I still had a student job in the warehouse at the time. But my studies were finished, I didn't know what I wanted to do. Then I told him about this advance... Today I think, "Wow, that's so little for a year!", but at the time I was okay with it. I learned very early that I can really live without a lot of money. It’s still like that! Sure, you buy Gucci slippers today because you feel like it… But I can get by with very little, really!
Chris: I mean, you can now take the rowboat to the Alsterhaus to do some shopping, right? Directly from the Außenalster (river in Hamburg).
Swiss: Absolutely! Of course, I live differently now than I did back then. But all I want to say is, that I don't need any of that!
Chris: Absolutely not!
Swiss: I really don't need any of this, I can get by with very, very little. And then I got this advance from him, publishing advance, and we started shooting the first videos for an EP that we wanted to release at the end of 2014. I remember we have the video—
Chris: That was already Swiss & Die Andern? Or was it only you? (Swiss started his career as a single rapper, without a band)
Swiss: That was Swiss & Die Andern. I have my rap thing... I was done with rap.
Chris: What was the name of the first EP?
Swiss: First one was the “Schwarz Rot Braun” EP.
Chris: Ah, yeah right, ok.
Swiss: And for the video "Finger zum MW"... I had a basic feeling of "Now it's all about everything! Now something has to work somehow! Otherwise, I can really forget making music.” I didn't sleep properly for 3 or 4 months. So, I couldn't sleep! I dozed here and there for a quarter of an hour; I was awake all night. Back then on YouTube, Shocky (former companion of Swiss) recommended to me, I listened to the diaries of the apocalypse. I was just... my body was... in a state of war. I couldn’t sleep at all. That feeling I had back then, that existential “Hey, now it’s about surviving!” These are the kinds of things that if I look back today, I would say "Relax! Everything will happen somehow!". And I would like that... And this little child still lives inside me! I still have to tell him, "Hey, it's okay. Don't worry about it, it'll be okay!" When certain things don't work or you think "Man, annoying, I've been working on it here and there for so long and now it doesn't work.". That's what you get from being an artist! You also can't free yourself from identifying very much with what you do. And of course, if you make a song that's important to you and people don't care at all… Of course you're sad! Because there's so much of you in there! *Chris agrees* And it's really like that, all of our songs that are the bangers and everyone wants to hear, don't interest me that much. Like other songs I've done, where I think, “Why aren’t you listening to that one?”
Chris: It's often the B-sides that mean the most to you.
Swiss: Yes, it’s…
Chris: But that’s ok. I think at some point you have to understand that it's okay. That you might just do things for yourself.
Swiss: Exactly! And the most important thing for me to this day is... Tobi, our drummer, said to me last time: "Hey, look, we've been doing this for almost 10 years now. If someone told you… you could have it all again, where we are now, but you would have to do it all again, would you say yes?". And I thought, "Um, yeah, probably." But I wouldn't say that right away! Because, hey, what kind of path have you taken!?
Chris: Oh... I would say...
Swiss: —What do you—
Chris: —I would say yes if I had the same time. But not now at (age) 44 say “We are doing now 15 years of Lord of the Lost” and then at 59, then... well... I think... You also have a different grind when you're younger.
Swiss: Yes, and the sacrifices we made! I notice that very much... Things we did in the first few years... Hey, drove it ourselves—I remember when we once had a solo show in Switzerland, we left at 2 a.m. on the day of the show, then were at the location in Switzerland around midday, did a sound check, relaxed briefly in some old hotel, played the show in the evening, got really drunk and went back to Hamburg the next morning! So, we were on the road for 36 hours, playing for a short time and then came home completely exhausted. For—
Chris: —for playing 15 minutes.
Swiss: —This. And didn't make any money. Because you play—
Chris: —You had to spend everything.
Swiss: —you wanted to play, wanted to show people your music. Also, what I said to you earlier, when someone says "Do you want your daughter to be a musician..." Ey! It's just, and I think people need to understand it, everyone you see who has been making music for many years deserves it! This is a bloody path that requires sacrifice, eats up the psyche, and often really hurts!
Chris: But the thing is, the fact that it doesn't seem that way to the outside world is partly a problem of our own making. Because of course you always try to make it look bigger than it actually is. At least we do—
Swiss: —Okay it’s different for us, we try to present ourselves as more and more shabby.
Chris: That was always part of the concept for us, that we said we were hitting the ground running, because in some cases we didn't want people to know how much shit you have to eat. And we did this tour back then... At the very beginning we supported Eisbrecher (German band), and they played in front of 1500 people at the LKA Longhorn (venue in Nuremberg) and of that size. Nobody knew us back then and we went along on this whole tour. On the outside, people were like, "Awesome! Lord of the Lost, they're strong and tough on the road!" and we drove in a car or a small van, without a crew, where we just fit in, just played with the house crew. And a small drum kit fit in there and we had a trailer or something; really bad! We sometimes slept at fan’s homes, on the floor somehow, because we didn't have any money for a hotel. *Swiss agrees* We had bought our place on the tour; it was a paid one! Somehow, we managed to make half the money with merch. Now I have to go back two steps: I still wouldn't give myself any advice. If I were forced to give myself a tip, if you said I have to tell little Christian something, then I would tell him, as cliché as it sounds, "Just listen to your feelings, to your heart.", call it what you will. "Just do it! Don't let others control you" *Swiss agrees* But "Always do, what you want to do." Because if you always do what you believe in, you will never be ashamed of what you have done! Even if, in retrospect, you might have written the song differently, because sound and image changes and maybe you think your clothes from 5 years ago are stupid. Then it’s ok, no problem, but at that moment you thought it was cool. And to the step where I actually want to go back again, to the children, to your daughter, to my son: regarding the question "How can you help them become, what they become?", I would like to ask a very difficult question—Where is the limit for you, where you say, it's not ok? And now the most extreme example: your child becomes a neo-Nazi. I have few nightmares, but when I imagine my child coming home at some point with an AfD shirt, I exaggerate quite dramatically, and is just speaking about it and says "This... and that...", with those ideologies—I don't know how I could bear to say "I support you in living out how you want." Even if it's just a revolt against the parents. I don't think that's going to happen either, but I don't know how I could stand it! What would you do then?
Swiss: I'll give you an example with our dog Hermine (Dachshund): At the beginning Hermine ha—
Chris: —She’s voting for the AfD! *Chris is just joking*
Swiss: Nooo! I have to digress a bit: She was very, very scared at the beginning. I couldn't take her for a walk without a leash, without her attacking and biting joggers, without running after bikes and things like that.
Chris: She doesn’t like me too, by the way.
Swiss: Yeah, she always needs some time. But we were with all kinds of people, every dog trainer says different things. I can now walk with Hermine everywhere without a leash. She is relaxed and really sweet. Even when people get a little closer into her comfort zone, which was often a problem. Someone recently asked me how we did it. I thought about it, and we didn't do anything special except continue to love her very much and stick by her. I think, and this sounds a bit like a calendar slogan, I think people who vote for the AfD or have such a strong hatred of others, who function according to the fear and anger principle, I think they are not, or are not particularly, loved in their lives. Maybe had phases where they didn't get a lot of love. I believe that a child who is sometimes allowed to have a different opinion than oneself and shows this child "I still love you, you are my child!", I believe that such children are not very susceptible to becoming neo-Nazis later.
Chris: But what if? I mean, that's a really hard one... I couldn't tell you! I've been thinking about this question for a long time. How would I react? What would I do?
Swiss: Of course I would still love my child!
Chris: Of course! You can’t—
Swiss: —You can still love—
Chris: —You can’t stop that!
Swiss: I would... I would probably try to find the dialogue despite everything. But what I'm saying is, I think "Repel the beginnings!" I believe a person who learns from an early age "I am loved, and I am loved for who I am and not for what I can or must achieve", I believe that such people are not particularly susceptible to being so extremist in any direction. And I believe that it's about finding something, as I told you before, that is fun and fulfilling. *Chris agrees* If you have that, then you don't need a flag to stand in front of to feel something.
Chris: That’s for sure!
Swiss: Short example: Tobi, my band, one thing that would be the end of Swiss & Die Andern for me, so to speak, is if at some point I no longer feel like getting on this nightliner with these guys! Simply because I somehow have the feeling that we piss each other off or that I don't like being with them anymore. But that's just the thing that I always notice, it's incredibly fun! I really enjoy being with these people and we are simply friends! We are a team! And that is the greatest feeling you can have—being a team!
Chris: And I think that's what makes you strong, what makes us strong! I felt this connection when we shot the video for "Schwarz Tot Gold". We knew each other a little better then, we had already worked together for 1-2 years, but not our bands. *Swiss agrees* And suddenly there were these 10 musicians, in a bunch, where somehow everyone had their own basic dynamic with strange jokes and... how it developed. But that feeling was the same!
[45:52]
Swiss: Yeah.
Chris: Although I knew it, but to also feel it! And that’s also why I love the work with you in the studio, you really feel that you are a healthy construct. And I enjoy that!
Swiss: Yes and believe that that’s also just what makes someone—or makes a squad be together for that long! Let’s be honest, how many bands do you see on festivals, and you notice they don’t talk to each other in the backstage area—
Chris: Nope.
Swiss: —then they enter the stage, and you really notice “whoa, that’s work for them now.”
Chris: Yup.
Swiss: And for me, well, as soon as I meet up, on Thursday evening when we’re ready to go and we enter the nightliner and we’re all playing games together and laughing and joking and so on and so forth, I’m realising, like, “oi, this here now, this is the greatest luck of the whole story.” I can, with my friends—
Chris: School trip.
Swiss: —with whom I’ve been together for MANY years, and we have gone through thick and thin, and at the start we—ey, we had fist fights with each other; we squabbled with each other SO hard, and despite all of that, that only forged an even stronger bond between us! We know each other very, very well, and we know where everyone has his limits and where one also might just say then: “okay, alright, no problem,” and yet, we still have so, so much fun with each other and can rely on each other so much and that is the very, very greatest feeling there is! And even if Swiss & Die Andern won’t exist anymore someday, we will still be a team, you know? One phone call and everyone is there!
Chris: Yes
Swiss: It’s really, like, well, that is the greatest thing ever with this, right? That I found people who want to walk the same way with me and who have the same vision of a beautiful life and who make me feel so good, who make me look good and whom I try to make look good.
Chris: Yes, and that always includes to know where—so, when closeness and being together, when it is not helpful, when you have to give space to each other.
Swiss: Yes.
Chris: And distance. And that is a thing, for example, that I value much with my guys; that they know exactly when I need to be alone too, and respect that and don’t have the feeling that I try to be the hermit-like artist and who says that I have to retreat because I’m trying to paint some picture of myself. But I need that because I don’t have any power otherwise, and they need me in peace and know exactly that I don’t love them less, although I am the one who always needs a balance after a few hours together, like a valve, because at some point I’m full; I can’t—I always have a 120 minute limit, where it’s— where I—
Swiss: Yes.
Chris: —can’t bear many people around me. And understanding each other and giving space to each other, that is a thing that I find incredibly important.
Swiss: A hundred percent. So, I’m also on tour, I—sorry. I’m laying—
Chris: Are you drinking beer again, this early?
Swiss: Of course. I’m sometimes laying in my bunk the whole day and reading or watching some series, and everyone does that.
Chris: Yeah.
Swiss: Especially if you’re that close together, to also give these moments to yourself—
Chris: You only HAVE these two cubic metres on tour.
Swiss: Ey, that—my bunk is my home then, and I’m lying there, and I enjoy that; I’m honestly sleeping more on tour than—
Chris: Are they cubic metres? No, yes…
Swiss: —I’m sleeping much more on tour than at home! *laughs*
Chris: Yes, man! Yes, man! I love that! Sleeping ten hours on tour—
Swiss: Sleeping!
Chris: —it is awesome!
Swiss: And then quickly having breakfast and sleeping again!
Chris: Oh! Yes, oh, great! I love it!
Swiss: That’s what I mean. And also, our crew, right? Like, the team, for example, in 2022 Shocky is—Shocky left our group, whom I actually met a few days ago—
Chris: Oh!
Swiss: Yes!
Chris: Crazy.
Swiss: I met up with him and it was very, very nice—
Chris: Cool.
Swiss: —and I was very happy, and I believe he was very happy too, and… then our merch guy, Anis, he is—from the start, I have known him since I was 16! You understand, we grew up together and he always did our merch, and he is, also for family reasons—
Chris: I just have a question there!
Swiss: Yes—
Chris: Merch! Merch! Quickly for the bulletin board! Yes, go on!
Swiss: Right. —He is… he has… he has started a different job… That hurt me so much! And with this I also felt that these two people, I miss them, like—
Chris: Yes.
Swiss: That is… that is a thing that stays with me until today, that I think—
Chris: Because the ba—the crew also belongs with the band in a way—
Swiss: Yes!
Chris: —At least that’s how it is for us, that is—
Swiss: Crew is family, and Anis is family, and—and—and with Shocky, as well, that’s why it has—
Chris: Anis is my car advisor, by the way, because I have no clue about cars.
Swiss: He is the car advisor of us all.
Chris: So, thank you very much again to Anis out there, without you—
Swiss: Exactly.
Chris: —I wouldn’t have such a nice car, and, like, it wouldn’t have four wheels. *Laughs*
Swiss: Anis is one of my oldest friends and I totally miss him being there.
Chris: Yes.
Swiss: And also, with Shocky. People always asked me “why is Shocky not there anymore?” and so on and so forth. “Say something about it.” And I think—and I also said that at some point— “hey, you will never live to see that I—about someone with whom I shared my bread, my sorrows, my fears and most of all my dreams, too, for so many years, that I will speak badly about such a person.”
Chris: No, of COURSE not.
Swiss: And it is like that to this day. So, even though Shocky is not with us anymore, there are many, many things that connect me with Shocky, and Shocky is still a part of my team, you understand? And, well, yes, despite all of it, that’s just… the greatest thing; to have found a group of people, together with whom, for many years—Really, I could actually cry there; together with whom for many years—
Chris: I wish that for everyone, something like that, yes.
Swiss: That’s by far the greatest thing! And you know, there we are at the [topic of] children again. If you find something like that, people with whom you chase the same dreams, for so many years, that is the greatest thing, and that—this feeling of happiness, I actually wish for every person out there, because it is so beyond words.
Chris: Many people know something like that only from series, so they are watching—that’s why series like “How I met your Mother” or something are so popular, because they show a bond between—or “Friends”, because they show a bond between friends over ten years, who are—exaggerated and Hollywood, of course—doing all these things, and I sometimes have the feeling when I’m entering the nightliner and these conversations are starting, sometimes I’m thinking “maybe I’m also just a part of such a series and how lucky am I to actually experience something exactly like that and every day is an episode that I can give a cool name!”
Swiss: Totally!
Chris: And I am incredibly thankful for that. But I quickly want to [say something] about the merch. I actually have—I’m contemplating before the podcast, too, like “what do I find interesting?” and I also have a lot of serious topics on hand, something like Nawalny2, there isn’t any time in seven minutes anymore, maybe another time, but [one] question: what is your least successful merch product? And… maybe also the most successful because you can say “that was really a flop,” where you had thought “that will be really cool,” but nobody wanted to have it.
Swiss: I don’t even know. I actually can’t tell. Actually, with the merch things—I’m doing them, together with Tim—
Chris: Yes.
Swiss: —a few other things with other people, as well, and then I don’t notice that much. There are things that are shelf warmers—
Chris: Yes, and the people are saying that you… Yeah.
Swiss: Pat is always saying “yeah, they are laying in the shelves like lead—
Chris: *laughs*
Swiss: —Let’s make a special offer to make space there.” For example, what you’re wearing right now, this classical Swiss & Die Andern—Missglückte Welt logo—
Chris: I’m not wearing that, but of course Swiss is trying to…
Swiss: —that you love to wear so much, with which you are going to take a photo for Instagram in a minute…
Chris: (whispering) Shit.
Swiss: These are things that are selling for many years, and they are always selling, and they are selling on a high level. See, you also have to say it with merch, well, merch and—We both are at a point, I think, where we—
Chris: But very briefly, sorry, before you—You can’t think of anything that you think has been a complete flop?
Swiss: Huh, what was a total flop…? Well, the fanny packs that I told you about last time, the- the upcycled fanny packs—
Chris: Ah, yes, right, right!
Swiss: —Financially speaking, they were a flop, but apart from that I’m not really into this.
Chris: Okay, worst flop, because I can remember that, were tissues, for us; for our first classic album, ensemble album, whatever, sometimes we’re doing things just with a string quartet and so on; Swan Songs is hanging up there, it has just been re-released, and I just put it into a golden frame; that’s why this product came to my mind, we thought “alright, we’ll make—" because the people tend to cry at such emotional music with strings, “—we’ll make tissues! Lord of the Lost tissues!” Nobody bought them. Afterwards we still had, I believe, 2,000 packages, we just threw them into the audience at a concert at a festival. *laughs*
Swiss: Yeah.
Chris: So, I can advise all bands: don’t make tissues!
Swiss: A thing that would probably sell well with your band because of the music might be ear plugs that are deadening the sound like crazy. Where you really almost don’t hear anything at all anymore.
Chris: That is— I’m writing that down,
Swiss: *laughs*
Chris: I’m writing that down…
Swiss: Ey, sorry, that was just—
Chris: Yup.
[55:07]
Swiss: —I HAD to [say] that. That was such an incentive—
Chris: BUT—very briefly before you get back—
Swiss: Here’s the kicker.
Chris: —the MOST successful merch product for us was, among others—I wouldn’t have done that without you—sweatpants!
Swiss: Yes.
Chris: I’ve seen the sweatpants with you, and back then I thought “how cool!” I mean, and I thought “does that interest people who rather listen to metal and gothic, and the mainstream portion is about a third or something?” But sweatpants, dude?
Swiss: Everybody wears sweatpants!
Chris: Yes!
Swiss: And it was so crazy, you’re always getting a few samples, and Pat—and I’ve really always been wearing sweatpants; that’s another one of the things that I love the most about my job, being able to go outside like a hobo, and nobody can say anything against it; I’ll just wear whatever I’m comfortable in—And he gave me a few fabrics and told me “Yeah, that’s the best one!” And I tried it on, he’s like “that’s a high-quality fabric,” bro, it’s much too thick, that’s a pair of sweatpants to sweat in; and then I tried the one that we have now; it’s awesome.
Chris: I’m currently wearing the same model.
Swiss: He’s saying, “but it’s lower grade.”
Chris: Hmm.
Swiss: I’m saying “bro, for sweatpants, believe me, I know what I’m talking about, the most important thing is that you like wearing them!”
Chris: These very fat ones are too warm, yes.
Swiss: This, and—
Chris: They look cool because they’re falling differently with the fabric and so on, yes, I know—
Swiss: This! And it’s like that until today; I like wearing our sweatpants because they’re cosy; I like to chill in them!
Chris: Yes.
Swiss: Yes; long story short, what I just wanted to say, and of course that’s, since we’re coming to an end, a final—to get back to “now they’re making money with that, too” again—
Chris: Lots of it, yes,
Swiss: It is a nice—it is a nice point to be at, not having to earn make money [sic]—to earn money with every nonsense.
Chris: “Having to earn make,” yes?
Swiss: Yes. Having to earn make—but to really be able to make music because you are into it. Because you have fun doing it. And I believe that is the very, very greatest good for me, and that’s also something that has always been a part of me. I can make the music that I want, and God knows we make no mainstream adapted music—
Chris: Oh, others are seeing that completely differently.
Swiss: Others are seeing that differently. Of course, but even if it were like that, to this day I can always say about myself: “hey, I’m making the music that I want to hear.”
Chris: Apart from that, YOU don’t even decide what is mainstream.
Swiss: Of course.
Chris: Only the amount of people who want to hear it decides that!
Swiss: Of course. Do you understand? I believe that’s the greatest good!
Chris: Yes.
Swiss: To be able to say “hey, THIS music is what I like at the moment.”
Chris: Yes.
Swiss: I find THIS song cool, and I’ll do that. And to be able to do that is also a huge, huge luxury and a liberty and luck, and I think it’s also the only compass that’s interesting because—as you said earlier—if you always say “hm, what do my people want to listen to”—
Chris: “What is currently popular on TikTok?”
Swiss: Exactly! You’re always going back and forth between different tastes—
Chris: Yes, and you’ll be embarrassed by what you have done after half a year at most.
Swiss: Exactly. And I think that’s a great luck, to have this compass inside of you and to say: “that brings me joy,” and that includes change. Yes, we don’t sound the same as ten years ago—
Chris: That’s why I’m always saying things like “stay as you are” is actually totally negative advice for me. I don’t WANT to stay as I am. I want to have the courage to change myself whenever I want to.
Swiss: Yes.
Chris: That sounded like a slogan, right?
Swiss: I want to become—I want to become what I can be, you understand?
Chris: Yes.
Swiss: That’s also a part of it. And there is a quote by Kafka: Kafka met a—
Chris: That’s this MTV moderator, right?
Swiss: Yes, exactly. K. met an old acquaintance who told him “You have not changed at all.” And as he said that Kafka got pale. Or K.3 This—change is so important, but it’s important that it’s intrinsic, that it comes from inside you, that you notice what you want to do; and I believe that is how long-lasting careers are formed, and most of all it’s fun like that; and let’s be honest: the only thing that lets us make music for so long is that we always get back to the core that there is nothing more beautiful than to get up in the morning with an empty sheet of paper, to sit down and at the end to have made a song that you put on, where you’re thinking “oh, is this cool or what” and then to film a video to it.
Chris: And success helps with that! Because if you are in the position to say “alright, I don’t have to have three jobs to be able to make music for a hobby, but you can just freely — because you know you earned money with the last concert—
Swiss: Yes.
Chris: You can freely dedicate yourself to your art without being afraid all the time.
Swiss: Yes.
Chris: That is totally important many people forget that out there.
Swiss: Yes, and also, how long it—you understand, like, how long the way there was.
Chris: Yes. That you can’t keep going endlessly—
Swiss: Nooo!
[1:00:01]
Chris: —without earning any money, that doesn’t work.
Swiss: At some point you can’t do it anymore for various reason! And us being at a point with our bands—we’re overrunning the time, I see—
Chris: Doesn’t matter.
Swiss: —that we’re at a point where we can say “hey… we can live comfortably off it and can still do the things we want”—now it broke off, I think.
Chris: No, it’s running.
Swiss: Oh, wow—That is, I believe, a stroke of fate but also something hard worked for. Because also for you, to say how many projects you have had, that Lord of the Lost got so—how did you always say that? “Hey, how did you get so [successful] overnight?”
Chris: Yes, it was these congratulations for the overnight success, and I said: “it was, a night that lasted 15 years now, so thank you very much…”—
Swiss: Yes, exactly! Would be a cool song! —
Chris: —I don’t know how long YOUR nights are, but…
Swiss: — “15 years of night.”
Chris: Yeah.
Swiss: And that’s what I mean. And that’s—without being like: “hey, have some empathy for us”, but I believe that everybody has to become aware of it, that a musician’s life or earning money with music is very, very improbable and if you’re making music you should make music because it brings you joy, and to this day it is like that! So, if I would have to work at the warehouse again or, I don’t know—
Chris: At Missglückte Welt you’re sometimes working at the warehouse, I see?
Swiss: Exactly! —You can bet your life on that, if I had the day off on Saturday, I would meet up with my guys and make music together.
Chris: Yeah.
Swiss: Because that is the core, I’m going to be honest, that carried me through Covid, I was feeling incredibly bad sometimes due to Covid. But one thing that ALWAYS worked was to sit down and make music.
Chris: Yes. It was the same for us.
Swiss: You know? And that is a great joy, here we are at the child again, to find a thing of which you can say: “that is my thing.”
Chris: And we are listening to—and maybe I want to use that as a closing— to the fans out there, of course; we asked, “what would you like to wish for?” And someone said, like, that we could as well read instruction manuals of washing machines and it would be interesting. And I want to take that as an opportunity to briefly read a short excerpt—
Swiss: Beautiful closing.
Chris: —from a—I’ve looked here, we are in our Lost Place here, in our Lord of the Lost apartment on the Kiez, I would like to read out three, four sentences (he probably means from their washing machine). Important: “Should the supply hose not be long enough, then please consult a specialised retailer or to an authorized technician.” Please keep that in mind.
Chris: Important: “The pressure has to be within the values stated in the table of technical data.”
Chris: Important: “The hose must not be pinched or bent down.” *laughs* Then: “the supply hose must not be cut off under any circumstances.” Yes, please keep that in mind, you out there, and here also comes something regarding protection from flooding, and there unfortunately my dad joke radar—my dad joke compass deflected too strongly there, I couldn’t keep on reading, that’s why I don’t want to do that anymore. But that, maybe as important info for out there:
Swiss: You can—
Chris: “Don’t pinch the hose.”
Swiss: The hoses of this world are similar to each other.
Chris: Yes.
Swiss: Hoses have something humane, and humans have—
Chris: Every hose is beautiful.
Swiss: Yes. And humans have something… Yes, also, hose or no hose, also doesn’t matter. Everyone has their own dharma4, their own problems they have to live with, their own hand of cards that they are dealt; concludingly I can just say, you can only make the best from your hand, and if you manage to do that, with dignity, you’re going on a good life path.
Chris: Yes. And we’re doing a bit of commercials here, after the commercials we’ll have Tom Cruise as a guest…
Swiss: Finally!
Chris: And we’ll meet again—
Swiss: He hasn’t been there for a long time.
Chris: Exactly—for episode four in two weeks. I’m also very happy now not to […] you for two weeks... (In the German sentence structure, the missing verb is at the end of the sentence).
Swiss: To hear.
Chris: Yes. Maybe also these long voice messages from you, I’m so happy—
Swiss: From me, the long voice messages.
[1:03:38]
Chris: —about this tenfold sped-up play capability.
Swiss: …Speed. I would say something bad now—
Chris: No, I’m pressing stop!
Swiss: —BUT I think it was a very emotional episode, and that’s why I want to end the thing with what you told me.
Chris: Great, especially I actually wrote down so many topics, but we simply talked, as if we were friends.
Swiss: That was nice!
Chris: *laughs*
Swiss: Christian, on this note…
Chris: Werner!
Swiss: Bye!
Chris: Ciao!
1. Deven Schuller is expert on financial topics, YouTuber, and author. His success is not only because of his knowledge, but also because of the inspiring story of a man who fought back from the injuries after a severe car crash, through pain, depression and different calamities to success and wealth. His methods are controversially discussed and should be treated with caution.
2. Alexei Anatoljewitsch Nawalny/Navalny (Алексей Анатольевич Навальный) was a journalist and politician who opposed the Russian Government. He got poisoned in an assassination attempt in 2020, got imprisoned in 2021 until he went missing for three weeks and then was reported to have died in prison, likely due to mistreatment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexei_Navalny
3. This is actually from Bertolt Brecht’s “Geschichten vom Herrn Keuner” (“Stories of Mr. Keuner”) and not from Kafka who also had a protagonist called “K.” in his book “Der Prozeß” (“The Court Case”).
4. Dharma is a term from different Asian religions, with variations of its meaning depending on the religion, but it is usually connected to morals and virtues, but can also encompass different aspects of life, like social aspects, nutrition, and hygiene, for example. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharma
Translation: Margit Güttersberger, Jeany Fischer, Elisabeth Czermack, Jari Witt
Proofreading: Helen Forsyth