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Episode 2 – Why Prince Harry is a punk

 

 

Description of the episode:

In this second episode Swiss and Chris meet again after two weeks and have so much to tell each other. Swiss was, as the punk that he actually is not at all, in Karlovy Vary (spa city in the Czech Republic), while Chris has ruined his CO2 Karma for the year by playing a show on a cruise ship. Besides that, the two of them talk about visits to McDonald’s before demonstrations and anal plugs with faces on them.

 

Chris: Yeah, Moin (“Hello” in Northern German), episode 2, Swiss and Harms, today from St. Pauli again, I am here today—big surprise—with Swiss.

Swiss: You can also say my civil name, should I—?

Chris: Werner?

Swiss: Yeah… yeah, now it’s out.

Chris: Werner… Werner… Werner Schweizmann (translates to: Swiss man).

Swiss: Huh? Well, people always make fun of me, they think… or they think I’m having them on when I say my name really is… this name is on my ID card.

Chris: Yeah, I know.

Swiss: It’s a good old German naming tradition that my parents carried on, that’s why—“Werner” or “Swiss”.

Chris: But your last name is actually “Schweizmann”.

Swiss: I don’t get the joke at all. My last name is—and you’re for a bit right about that—they always say there’s a bit of truth in every bad joke—

Chris: Indeed.

Swiss: I have this typical Swiss last name actually—

Chris: “Stadl-Stadlhuber” or something like that?

Swiss: No, that’s rather Austrian. I have the best of both worlds. German: Werner, and then this very, very typical Swiss surname.

Chris: I see.

Swiss: As this was very important to my parents, to keep a bit of—

Chris: Stay with us, after the commercial break comes the real surname of—

Swiss: —patriotism.

Chris: —Swiss. How are you doing?

Swiss: How am I really doing or—

Chris: How are you really doing.

Swiss: OK, so I am fitter than during our last episode, I also must admit, when I listened to it, it brought me down a bit that you were so depressed in the beginning—“I need sleep”—

Chris: I know you have a hard time dealing with honesty.

Swiss: “I need sleep”—and I… Do you understand—that’s the part you don’t care about.

Chris: Exactly! But this is you—you care about what’s interesting for the people out there, I just speak freely from the heart.

Swiss: Yeah, that’s why I’m doing something with you here.

Chris: Exactly, because you would also like to play at the M’Era Luna at some point.

Swiss: Right, wearing two kilos of makeup. Um, that was mean.

Chris: On each side. 

Swiss: On each side.

Chris: On each side.

Swiss: Well, no, I am actually doing fine, I have two eventful weeks behind me: I went to the studio, recorded some stuff, and I went to Karlsbad (Karlovy Vary’s name in German) for three days, I don’t know, if “Karlsbad” rings any bell to you, Bohemian Spa Triangle—

Chris: Probably something to do with Karl Marx—

Swiss: —in the Czech Republic. No—

Chris: Sure, it surely does.

Swiss: They have distanced themselves from that. It is three cities, which are famous for… They have these famous spas, and the whole look is… We wanted… We took a video… the whole look of this town is very much “Hotel Budapest” style, it’s a totally picturesque, as I noticed.

Chris: So now you’re telling me something about spring water, hot springs, and that you’re now doing punk again.

Swiss: “Spring Water” *pronounces it in an exaggerated Swiss accent*… Look, hey, we’re talking—

Chris: Yeah, but did you—

Swiss: We’ll talk about skeletons in the closet in a minute, Chris, before you start moralizing and pointing fingers at others, as you are known to do, let’s first get my part done and then let’s talk about the disgrace you committed over the last few days. No, it actually was—we have—do you know the movie “Eurotrip”, where they somehow only have one euro left, these Americans, they only have one euro left, or one dollar, and then they go, “Well shit”—they’re stranded somewhere in the Eastern bloc. They only have one dollar left, and then there’s a cut and they are in a luxury—

[translator’s note: he probably confused “Eurotrip” with “Road Trip”, starring former MTV host Tom Green.]

Chris: Who is starring in that, are they known somehow?

Swiss: Ah, what was his name again? The dude used to have a very successful series on MTV… anyhow. Totally—

Chris: Mola Adebisi. (German MTV host)

Swiss: That was very, very funny. No, it was an American, and there are a few Americans on a trip in Eastern Europe and they have only one euro left, and they say, “Oh no, we are in a fix, what are we to do?”—and then you see—CUT, they are in a fancy hotel, saying, “Yeah, we are the wealthiest people here”, having a party there, they give someone a one-cent tip, he goes, “I quit!”… and we got very nice hotel rooms at a very cheap price, and we took a video with a guest who is featuring on our next album, I can already say that, but I won’t say the name, we’re keeping this secret as he is also going on tour with us.

Chris: Are you allowed to say which song it is?

Swiss: The song is called… am I giving away something with that now? The song is called “Drive By”.

Chris: I know it.

Swiss: You know it. You also have an insignificant impact on the story.

Chris: I don’t care at all, as long as you pay me that much money, it doesn’t matter, how significant that is.

Swiss: That’s what you’re known for. That’s what you’re loved for, at least by your fans, when they order the third anal plug in your shop.

Chris: We’ll soon get these with YOUR face on it.

Swiss: Does it have your face on it?!

Chris: We had one… there it is, look, up there.

Swiss: That’s so shabby.

Chris: We also sent one of these to the Vatican.

Swiss: I thought you’d pull down your pants and show it to me, but… no, right. Cool. A cool story, we took a video there, and… I actually don’t like to talk about myself for such a long time, we should briefly… or also somewhat longer… talk about your disgrace. I would definitely question that critically, and then we could briefly get to the names—

Chris: Yeah, listen… I would like to… the thing about the names, before we seriously get to the topic of the names, and I get to tell you what disgraces I did in the last… or the one big disgrace I did in the past week.

Swiss: It was one big disgrace.

Chris: This morning, I was sitting at the breakfast table with my son, and I told him that today we’re going to talk about names in the podcast, to which he replied, “Just take subtitles from successful movies!”

Swiss: OK.

Chris: They were already successful, and now listen, I found this pretty–

Swiss: May I briefly interpose with a question? You communicate at the breakfast table?

Chris: Yes.

Swiss: Not like in a normal family, where everyone is on their mobile phone, the child is “parked” in front of the tablet?

Chris: We write via WhatsApp.

Swiss: I see.

Chris: Telegram, sorry.

Swiss: Telegram.

Chris: I found that actually really cool, I need to read seven thingies to you. “Swiss and Harms – A New Hope”.

Swiss: “Hope at the Horizon” maybe?

Chris: But that’s… You’ve seen Star Wars, haven’t you?

Swiss: Nooo, I attended the tree nursery (German phrase used when someone doesn’t do well in school or isn’t interested in it), my parents were anthroposophists. Carry on!

Chris: Then it will be really funny for those out there, but, of course, not for you, because you don’t understand Star Wars, “Swiss and Harms ̶ The Phantom Menace”. Also from Star Wars. Have you seen “The Lord of the Rings”? “LORD OF THE RINGS”!

Swiss: I have seen “The Lord of the Rings”.

Chris: “Swiss and Harms ̶ The Fellowship”.

Swiss: I find that very, very good. I find that very good. It also has something very “German” to it.

Chris: Yes, a bit.

Swiss: I like that.

Chris: You have seen Harry Potter? Or at least such—

Swiss: I have seen it.

Chris: “Swiss and Harms and the Chamber of Secrets”

Swiss: Yeah, that’s not bad either. OK, I have to say, when you watched all these movies, I was out in the streets, as a teenager.

Chris: Yeah, right.

Swiss: I didn’t have time.

Chris: Back then you kept it real and—

Swiss: Not anymore.

Chris: Not anymore. There are also three more that I liked a lot… listen: “Swiss and Harms ̶ The Dark Knights”—we’re at the Batman series now.

Swiss: I like it.

Chris: For the friends of Indiana Jones: “Swiss and Harms and the Last Crusade”

Swiss: Yeah.

Chris: And the best one, listen, the best one: “Swiss and Harms ̶ Judgment Day.”

Swiss: I find that cool. “Judgment Cast.”

Chris: “Judgment Cast.”

Swiss: “Pod-Cast Away.”

Chris: Ah, I find that amazing. Anyhow, my son admitted others have been successful with that, and you’re always “stealing” all the time anyway, so you may as well also steal a movie title. Right! Now you want to talk about my disgrace?

Swiss: First, I really want to ask you—and I’m really serious about this—how are you doing? But try to say something a bit more energetic than the last time, not like—

Chris: I am doing really great, on Mondays at 6 p.m., I’m doing a spinning class now, so I am super fit now.

Swiss: Seriously?

Chris: Nah, bullshit, I—

Swiss: How cool is that, spinning is really tough!

Chris: It is really tough.

Swiss: I did that once for a while—

Chris: Yeah.

Swiss: —with my girls. And that’s madness. OK, sorry, how are you really doing?

Chris: No, I’m doing that with your girls now. Well, I’m doing fine, I’m actually… two weeks ago I spoke about this general tiredness; now I am just normally tired because of jet lag.

Swiss: Ah, jet lag? How so? Tell us about it, Christian!

Chris: I went to the Caribbean, and there it is 4 a.m. now, or 3:30 a.m.—but… I’m doing fine. I am currently doing really fine, I am in the mood for this year; we played the first shows, and I have the feeling I’m getting back into the “live” thing. But, actually, what you want to talk about, it’s also something which concerns me, we went on a cruise ship, on a so-called Metal-Cruise, it’s called “70,000 tons of Metal”, it’s the biggest one, there are some Metal-cruises or generally—

Swiss: How many? 70…?

Chris: 70,000.

Swiss: And what’s the rest?

Chris: Tons of Metal.

Swiss: That should be “tons of air pollution”, Christian, let’s talk about that, you know, do you understand?

Chris: 70,000—no, listen, I really need to seriously talk about this. The thing is—we have—this 70,000 Tons of Metal was a kind of “bucket list” thing for us, where we said we absolutely want to play there at some point. We want to go to that festival. We blindly accepted that, and only when we announced it, we realized that it’s actually not cool at all, to go on a cruise ship, and that it’s us, who always hold up high the flag of sustainability, and then we go on a cruise. I’m back here, and I’m happy to have done that, because it was, of course, a cool experience, but I actually went and picked out a few numbers, to figure out which screws to twist about sustainability this year, as actually with such a one-week cruise including flight that makes 1–2 tons of CO2 per person—

Swiss: How do you twist those screws?

Chris: I don’t know yet. It’s the little screws that everyone can twist for a bit, like a kilo of butter creates about 20 kilos of CO2 during the production process, a kilo of margarine creates one kilo, but I don’t want to talk about all the things I have tried to do well in the past few years now, but how I can make amends now, and I really need to make a plan now, because I have really thought, “How I can do that?” How can I—also for my conscience—not so much for others, as of course there are people who rightly come at me with headwinds, but really for myself, as I say, “I went on this cruise now, and I always preach the opposite—what can I do now?”

Swiss: I’d have an idea.

Chris: Yeah.

Swiss: Put your Diesel SUV on Ebay Classifieds now for €1,000—

Chris: For €1,000? But it only cost 500—

Swiss: Yeah, exactly! Put it on there, and everyone will say, “Great!”, everyone will say, “Great!” I’d find that cool.

Chris: That doesn’t make it more sustainable though, I’d rather be banned from using it for a while.

Swiss: May I tell you my opinion about it?

Chris: Yes, please.

Swiss: Well, I think… this is one of those typical discussions again. It would be totally the same with me. If we did that, I would also be totally annoyed, but on the other hand, there is the option to participate in this as an international band—so what? Honestly—so what? You did that once. I find this pointing fingers at people and saying, “I now consider you immoral et you lost all my respect, because you did that!”—

Chris: So far nobody has done that, at least not in public.

Swiss: No, but that’s whack to me anyway, you know, because at the end of the day you simply have to look at the world, look at people; who out there is consistent the whole time about what they say, about what they are now, about what they allegedly always have been, and can always do everything 100% right? Who can claim that? I’ll be totally honest here, I am not a fan of beating yourself up too much about these things. I think the decisive factor is that you have a basic sensitivity for the matter. Same goes for eating meat, you know, or not eating meat. You know, I for example don’t eat any meat anymore, but that didn’t come about because someone somehow gave me a lecture or accused me or yelled at me, but it happened as I at some point stood there in Izmir in Turkey, and a meat vehicle drove past me, with meat scraps on it, stacked several meters high, it stank incredibly, I saw these animal parts there and thought, “That’s simply a mass grave, these are corpse parts”—but I said that to myself, do you get that?

Chris: That’s exactly the thing. It’s not about how others might point at me now, but that I consciously want to say that I have to point the finger at myself a little. I did that, it was a bucket list festival for us, we really wanted to do it, it was great, but nevertheless, especially as someone who always tries to live consciously, and also tries to set an example for others, not by always pointing the finger but rather acting as a positive role model, saying, “Guys, if you do something like that, why don’t you see if you can put your own house in order?” That’s what’s important to me. Just like for you; meat is also one of these topics. For me, it’s also fundamentally the case that I just always try to somehow—I don’t really know how to say this—I don’t believe in militantism, strict no-no’s, in saying, “No, I won’t do that because…”, but you have to do everything… everything always has to be in balance somehow, you have to feel comfortable with everything. For me, for example, it’s the same with meat, and vegetarian or vegan food—I actually try to eat vegan as much as possible, vegetarian if I can’t, and occasionally, if I know where it comes from, I also take the liberty of eating meat. I kind of have to do the same for myself on the cruise thing, I can’t just say, “fuck it, bro!”

Swiss: Yeah, yeah, no, that’s—

Chris: I can’t just say I don’t care.

Swiss: But isn’t that just the theme of mindfulness again, which we also spoke about last time?

Chris: Of course.

Swiss: I think it’s about mindfulness and awareness, and I have the feeling that it’s all about being aware of what you’re doing, and then automatically drawing the right consequences for yourself. So, I always have to laugh at how much or how quick people are to judge others for something like that. So, I’ll admit now—without somehow pitting our fanbases against each other—if I had done that, bro, Poland would be open, can you say that, “Poland open”? (this saying means “All hell would break loose.”)

Chris: I honestly don’t know that.

Swiss: I will make amends elsewhere because I am aware that this was not right. There would be… an escalation. So, unbelievable. It would be held against me, not that I would care, but I would care about dealing with it beforehand, just like you are. But people are so quick to point fingers at others and say, “Oh my God, you did this and that! You can’t be taken seriously anymore!” and so on and so forth, and I always ask myself, who out there is so consistent, which I’ve already said, who is so consistent in their values and how they live it that they can get away with it? And is not sitting in a glass house, throwing stones?

Chris: Actually nobody!

Swiss: A short example: my favourite moment was… I think… that was a long time ago… It was a demonstration, May 1st demonstration, the meeting point was Altona train station. It was against capitalism, against exploitation, against everything like that. At that time there was still this McDonald’s at Altona train station.

Chris: Was that APPD¹ time?

Swiss: No, no, or was it during that time? I don’t know, I have no idea, it doesn’t really matter. But it was a very red demonstration (red means left-wing here).

Chris: There’s still a McDonald’s, isn’t there?

Swiss: No, it doesn’t exist anymore. And every one of these people, or every other person, who went to this demonstration had previously been to McDonald’s, and came out with some burgers and fries, and drinking Coke. I thought, “What an awesome picture of our time!” Because before you go to the demonstration, you go to McDonald’s.

Chris: “First to McDonald’s!” not “First to Penny” (reference to a Swiss & Die Andern song and album, and to the advertising slogan of German supermarket chain Penny).

Swiss: Exactly! It’s the same with clothes! Everyone says this and that, and in the end they all go to the demonstration with their The North Face and Jack Wolfskin jackets. By the way, me too! You know? Me too! Because I like the jacket, it’s good quality! Is that a fucked-up company behind it or a huge US company? Yes, of course!

Chris: I find it much more difficult when you talk about clothes—but as I said, that’s a topic in itself—for example, especially in the left-wing scene, it’s always very important that the merch is as cheap as possible, because everything else is capitalism. But the fact is, that merch that is as cheap as possible also has to be produced incredibly cheaply. And a lot of the shirts that I see people wearing are just… Well, there’s nothing fair [in terms of production] about it. That just doesn’t work.

Swiss: Look, I’ll give you an example from us: we try to keep a cool balance when it comes to where we order our shirts and how we make them, by the way, we have them produced in East Germany. We try to make the ratio between production and price as fair as possible, and somehow as compatible with us as possible. There have often been these hysterical comments, “What about fair trade? You don’t do fair trade!” It’s not just black and white, there are different levels. And then, for the last album, with a cool tailor shop from Hamburg Wilhelmsburg, we said, “We make sustainable bags!” Recycled! “You can send us your denim materials.” It’s a cool company, they hire refugees, and they do—

Chris: We do something similar with our old backdrops!

Swiss: Yes, yes, exactly! Really cool work! And “You can send in your stuff and they’ll make fanny packs out of it.” Hey! That was so funny! Because I don’t think we’ve ever sold so little of something. Maybe 30 pieces! Where you thought, “Hey, now you have something that is really completely fair trade and sustainable!”—but it was more expensive! It costs €55 *Chris agrees* and people are dipping out! You always scream for it but when you notice the price, you say, “Oh no!”?

Chris: So, when you say this example with McDonald’s and the demonstration, that’s similar to me! I live here directly in the Kiez (name for the area of St. Pauli around the Reeperbahn)—

Swiss: Have you ever been to a demonstration?

Chris: Yeah, of course!

Swiss: Cool!

Chris: You mean seen on the news? No, of course, I was at a demonstration! Damn! Hey! *laughs*

Swiss: But that was justified in a very hectic manner!

Chris: Yes, I have… How do you—

Swiss: *imitates Chris* “Yes, yes, sure I have been to a demonstration” and looking to the left and the right in case there is someone in the room. *laughs*

Chris: If someone is watching, right. *both laughing* Nope, that’s actually exactly the thing that sometimes happens when you see a lot of the punks in the Kiez—and that’s mostly the very young ones, who probably still live at home, but just want to be a punk for the weekend—and then they’re standing there with the anarchy shirt, but the McDonald’s bag in their hands. That reminded me a bit of something, and unfortunately I had to respond to it, it was on our Swiss+Harms Instagram, in a comment where someone was complaining about how little punk everything you do actually is. And I wrote, “Bro, being on Instagram and saying that’s not punk is a vicious circle! If you’re a real punk, then you’re not on Instagram and hating in the comments.”

Swiss: And that’s the funny thing! So exactly this discussion—quick question: have you started the stopwatch? I don’t have it.

Chris: Nope, I didn’t, but I see it here.

Swiss: How long have we been now?

Chris: I think we chatted for about 3 minutes at the beginning, we’re now at 20.

Swiss: 20, OK. I’ll set the alarm now. I’ve had this discussion so many times and it’s so funny. The people, and I wanted to talk to you about that too—

Chris: “Bottomless Barrel” is also a good additional title for a podcast! Bottomless Barrel!

Swiss: Yes, really good. People want… So, I’m asking myself today, and I want to talk to you about this: what is an opinion today? What are values, i.e. your own convictions about values? And what is an image and your own narcissism? A lot of people like me are often confronted with “You’re not a punk at all!” Whereas I think, “Well, in my opinion, we are the band that really does what we want and doesn’t let any shitstorm intimidate us, and says we’re convinced of that!” And if that’s a left-wing radical hit song (reference to the song and the EP “Linksradikaler Schlager”, written and produced with Chris), then that’s a left-wing radical hit song! If we feel like making a jazz record, we’ll make a jazz record. We’re just not trying to sound like what punk has been supposed to sound like since the ’70s. For me THAT is punk. Can we just talk about how the first punks looked? Whom they wanted to piss off and so on? But that’s the crazy thing! That people get into their “I’m punk” bubble and then start nagging around in that bubble, and nagging other people, and saying, “You’re not punk anymore!” and so on. That alone is so unpunk. Because punk is actually “Shut up! Let me be who I am! And I don’t even notice what you’re doing because I don’t give a shit about you!”

Chris: Hey, that’s just like the trueness discussion in metal or in the gothic scene—"Are you a real goth?” And we lead on both fronts… or what does leading mean—

Swiss: Fronts. *said like Adolf Hitler*

Chris: —we are discussing these two fronts and exactly what you say reminds me—and I don’t want to go too far into this at the moment—of the discussion of “What is true?” *Swiss agrees* Because in metal it’s not “Is that punk?”, it’s “Is that true?” True always means “Don’t let anyone tell you anything! Do exactly what you want!” *Swiss agrees* And I always ask myself, when I have to let the metal scene tell me what I have to do to fit in, how true am I? It’s a vicious circle then!

Swiss: But that is the paradox of every scene!

Chris: This is so incredibly annoying to me! But I would like to ask a quick question in between, while we’re talking about punk and asking, “is it still punk rock”: you were in the studio with Bela (Bele B. from the German band Die Ärzte; Chris is a huge fan) while I was on the cruise, and I see it as my very own—I don’t believe in karma—but if you believe in something like that, then that was exactly my comeuppance. Christian goes on a cruise and at that exact moment you go with Bela, one of my—

Swiss: Werner is in the studio with Bela—

Chris: Werner is with Bela—

Swiss: —and Benny (Benjamin Lawrenz, producer at Chameleon Studios)! And I can say—

Chris: You are in the studio with one of my youth heroes! This is the blow I seem to deserve. That means—wait a moment, hold your breath *Swiss wants to interrupt him again*—I don’t have to make up for it!

Swiss: This is your punishment, you say? That’s enough—

Chris: Yes! I don’t even have to think about sustainability anymore, that’s enough.

Swiss: —for the whole year!

Chris: *laughs* Yes, for the whole year!

Swiss: This wasn’t the first cruise and it wouldn’t be the last either.

Chris: That weighs more than 2 tons of CO2!

Swiss: What I found out is that Benny, your partner in the studio, whom we always record our stuff with—

Chris: Just say my partner.

Swiss: —your partner and Bela are movie nerds! Hey, that was crazy! They talked a lot about films, and I was amazed at how much Benny knows about movies too!

Chris: Diggah (German slang, like “bro”), you didn’t even know “Star Wars – A New Hope”.

Swiss: Yeah, bro, I was on the street, I played soccer, I stole candy. That was my childhood, not hiding at home and watching movies! Ha! You heard that? Mr. Harms!?

Chris: I have, Diggah, I’m a Waldorf student, I didn’t watch any films as a child, I caught up on it when I was a teenager.

Swiss: Really?

Chris: Yes, really…

Swiss: It’s always this – you always crave what you’re not allowed to have!

Chris: Completely!

Swiss: Everything was forbidden to you then you became a nerd

Chris: Exactly this.

Swiss: Very briefly; we were still at the trueness and the punk discussion. And for me it is exactly this that ultimately undermines and destroys every scene. Taking punk from the ’70s as a benchmark, but only in terms of style, and, on the other hand, saying the attitude can’t be right anymore. Because the punk of today is… in my opinion… a lot of bands today say, “We’re punk now!” For me they are boring and conformist bourgeois bands, who have no greater fear than not being able to please in their fucked-up bubble. Not being able to do everything right and being afraid of somehow having a culture of mistakes. “That’s punk.” And I’m like, “No!” Punk today walks around in street clothes like us. Punk makes Schlagersongs (German music) when it feels like it. Punk—

Chris: Punk makes you slim (Wordplay in German: “Punk macht schlank”)

Swiss: Punk makes you slim! And punk is sick too! And punk is also paradoxical. And punk isn’t always right either! But punk is trying, and punk is still trying to piss people off.

Chris: I think in general every scene has to try things out and develop. But the problem is, you always have the grail guardians, the gatekeepers, in every scene. It’s really funny, for example, in the gothic scene —by the way, gothic emerged from punk—

Swiss: OK.

Chris: It’s like, when we talk about festivals like M’era Luna, and they always ask, “What kind of bands do you want next?” or when people in the comments talk about what they want and what they don’t want, which is ultimately the problem, because such scenes sometimes have problems with young talent in general. Because either people want exactly the way it used to be—like The Cure back then, or Sisters of Mercy, so completely original. And when new bands sound like that, then you’re a copycat. But if you do something new, then you are not real, then you’re not true. And that doesn’t work! You just have to accept that every scene develops, and a scene develops through the people who come after. The way culture develops and if every culture, if every new generation only remembers what its ancestors did, there is no development. This also applies to music. Of course, that’s something like, I don’t know… When popular music and pop culture emerged, it took a few decades for such discussions to even arise, because everything was new.

Swiss: You have to be able to afford it, that kind of discussion.

Chris: Yeah sure!

Swiss: It often arises out of boredom.

Chris: Here we are back to the topic of luxury problems, which is a different general term.

Swiss: Short example: the first punks in London walked around with swastika armbands. *Chris agrees* Why? Because they thought, “Hey, how do we piss off our parents as much as possible? Hmm… Our parents fought against the Nazis—this is how we piss off our parents!” You know? And that’s, of course… We don’t have to talk about that—

Chris: So, this means when Prince Harry walked around with the swastika armband—

Swiss: That was punk!

Chris: —there at the party, it was punk! *both laugh*

Swiss: So to say—yes! Punk in the spirit of an old English tradition! And that’s what I find so blatant today: punk, or many bands that call themselves punk, try to be incredibly politically correct in the way their concerts go. It is directly forbidden for people to be shirtless. It is—

Chris: Is this going too far? I would like to have it explained at some point, because to be honest I have never dealt with this because it is not an issue for us.

Swiss: Being shirtless?

Chris: If someone is shirtless, they are shirtless. At most, people say, “Ew, that’s disgusting, I don’t like it when you’re so sweaty and hairy next to me—”

Swiss: Yeah. The discussion… I can… Hey, that’s a huge topic! But I’m very into it! It’s changed over the years that we’ve been doing this now and where it started—

Chris: Because I think a lot of people, especially the Lord of the Lost people, don’t even know this topic.

Swiss: Right! It’s morphed like that—

Chris: So very briefly: the topic is that you can’t go shirtless!

Swiss: Being shirtless is… *he tries to find the right words*

Chris: Politically incorrect?

Swiss: Politically incorrect. It has a political nature and, above all, in this discussion it is also referred to as sexism—

Chris: Because only men are allowed to do it? Or—

Swiss: Exactly. It started with saying, “Look, a man who takes off his shirt, which women are not allowed to do, is using a privilege that only a man has.” And I would like to say, again, that we are a band that has really dealt with these things and doesn’t just say “It’s always been like that for us” *he said in dialect* —Why did I do that now in East German dialect?—um, “It’s always been that way for us and that’s how we’ll continue to do it now!” We actually always listened to it. The first argument that was said was, “A man takes advantage of a privilege that a woman does not have.” So, we said, “OK, you know what, at a concert, apart from the fact that as an artist on stage I should enjoy something like artistic freedom, this is my performance, I’m doing an act of art here *Chris agrees* and that is my basic right!” First of all, you should respect that, but let’s put it aside for now. So, we said we want to create a space in which every woman, every man, everyone, no matter how or what they are or what they want to be seen as, feels comfortable doing that if she/he/they want to do it. This space needs to be created! Apart from the fact that there is no law against it—

Chris: I think only in public, right?

Swiss: Yes, but it’s also—

Chris: Is that the problem?

Swiss: It’s causing public outrage, I think, but that’s not a serious matter… So, you know, revolution doesn’t work if you let yourself be intimidated by things like that.

Chris: Yes, if we check the facts first. No idea. It’s summer, it’s warm. Germany. If a man takes off his shirt, walks through the streets, it’s OK. If a woman with, let’s say free tits, it’s not OK, I think. It’s indecent exposure. 

Swiss: He said, “tits“. 

Chris: Yeah. 

Swiss: Right. But a woman, for example, in a public bath in Berlin, filed a suit that it’s possible for her to do it (visiting the bath topless), too and won this case. Um. In the US there was a movement in the ’80s or ’90s where women also filed suits and won. However, I want to say, at the end of the day, when I’m hosting an event, I’m granted the domiciliary right². When I say, every woman, every man, everybody is equal, you’re allowed to do it, then that’s how it is— 

Chris: *tries to interrupt* 

Swiss: —’cause that’s what I want, hey, just briefly. 

Chris: Within the bubble, it’s possible at a concert. There—  

Swiss: Exactly. I think a bubble should be able to deliver a social example. A blueprint where you can say, “Here, it is possible. Why isn’t it possible everywhere?” And we said we want everybody to feel fine with it. When women feel like they are seen as a piece of meat by men or something like that, please report it. We always make our security aware of that. Then it continued, it’s been said that the concerts are a safe space. That means that women who have been victims of sexual violence feel uncomfortable with it. Then we said: “Well, sexual violence is something so, so terrible. And if that topic is something that currently affects you, then a place where people are that close to each other, where they drink alcohol—it’s the wrong place.” Then it’s necessary to reappraise this and not to go to such concerts. At least you can’t expect that at a festival or a punk concert. And we don’t presume to be able to give that room. And the newest point is that people point out that it’s disgusting to feel those sweaty bodies in the mosh pit. 

Chris: Let’s put it this way, I can relate to that. I don’t like that either. It’s also the reason why I never stand there at the front at concerts, ’cause I don’t fancy standing there between stinky and sweaty people, no matter what sex. I wouldn’t want to stand next to a sweaty naked woman any more than next to a sweaty naked man. That’s just not my thing.

Swiss: Exactly, but—  

Chris: I understand that. But that’s not a— 

Swiss: No, and that’s where you actually hit the nail on the head, which is often lost in this discussion. So, people, it’s only my opinion. I don’t presume to speak for everyone, only for us, why we see things the way we see them. In this discussion, when people say: “Oh, people are so sweaty”, you have to say: “OK, others… so, people are sweating anyway, on their hair and so on.”— 

Chris: Well— 

Swiss: —in the mosh pit, people are sweating—  

Chris: Or they stand at the back like me. *laughs* 

Swiss: Exactly. And that’s exactly the point for me: people act as if they are only victims in

this situation and don’t somehow have the opportunity to make their own decisions. And their own decision looks exactly like this: “Wow, everyone in the mosh pit is sweaty, people don’t have their shirts on. I don’t like that, I’ll stand on the side.”  

Chris: Yes. 

Swiss: But people nowadays expect to be able to do everything and everyone else has to

that into account. So, as a 1.20m tall person, I want to be in the mosh pit and I want the mosh pit to be exactly as it should be for me.  

Chris: But that just doesn’t work.  

Swiss: It doesn’t work. Exactly like—I also like to watch fights, and I don’t want to be in that cage and fight that fight myself. In other words, I know what I like and I know what I don’t like. And that’s exactly how I have to decide everywhere in my life, in every situation. If I don’t like nudity, I can totally understand that, then I just don’t go to the sauna. And I don’t expect that I can still go to the sauna and everyone is dressed. Do you understand? And that’s kind of the point for me, why we weighed things up for ourselves. And I think it’s OK if people don’t like that. And I don’t ask people to take their clothes off either, but I think you have to put up with it if that’s the case. So, I think, if you go to a concert and the singer (male or female) is playing shirtless, then you have to put up with it. And it’s the same with the audience. So respect and tolerance are not just a one-way street. And always going around saying: “The whole world has to be the way I feel comfortable with it.” That doesn’t work. Welcome to the real world. It just doesn’t work for you. And to always have this universal demand on everyone: “But it has to be like this, otherwise it won’t work for me.” That’s so selfish, so self-centered… couldn’t be more. And that’s why it’s important for us to say, “No!”. And so we’re really one of the only bands who say—well, who come from this bubble— who say: “Fuck it!” Do you understand? We can’t understand these arguments to the extent that we say, “Hey, we’re banning that now!” No, I think punk also stands for freedom, which also means respect for each other. And if we can’t manage to respect each other when we’re shirtless, then we can’t manage to respect each other when we’re dressed either. Respect starts somewhere else— 

Chris: I think that’s exactly it. I’m trying—here I go again with my change of perspective. I think that’s exactly the point. This “If we don’t manage to respect each other shirtless…”, then many people will say, maybe from a woman’s perspective, which is, of course, difficult for me to take as a man, because when I try—  

Swiss: But you also regularly try to adopt this perspective on stage. 

Chris: Definitely. Yes, exactly. Of course, that only has sexual aspects for me personally. *laughs*  

Swiss: Fetish. 

Chris: Um. No, um. Why I try to do that is to say: “OK, we have to respect each other”, and then from the woman’s perspective it’s: “Yes, but it’s not possible for everyone. The law takes that away from me.” But I also have to say that if I had to decide this for myself from a male perspective and if we had this problem here, I would say: “Friends, if you want, take your clothes off, but take care of each other. If you want to, go bare down there, but please be mindful of your surroundings—no idea. Please try to look out for each other as much as possible.” 

Swiss: Everyone with trailing testicles, please tie them up! 

Chris: Exactly. *both laughing* But very briefly again, the discussion we actually have is exactly this—of course, we have a mosh pit. It’s not as much, not as big as yours, not that much happens there, but every now and then, yes. Partly regionally dependent, partly— 

Swiss: In Bavaria, it’s really big, isn’t it? This Bavarian—  

Chris: —concert atmosphere. Yes, that’s right, they dance the Schuhplattler (traditional dance in Bavaria). No, but it depends on, um, how it goes. How the audience mixes. Do you have more metal people, more gothic people, more mainstream? Is there more moshing or not? But we also have that phenomenon that the people who are standing in the second, third, fourth row feel disturbed, just before it starts, when people start moving around too much. And that’s just another mindfulness thing, that I say: “When I’m dancing and moshing, I just have to make sure that I don’t run into people standing there with my elbows out.” On the other hand, you also have to say, when you’re standing at the front, you have to expect that to happen. And the only thing, the only thing I have a problem with is children.  

Swiss: Yeah.  

Chris: Because there are actually some fans and I can only say to everyone out there, if you bring children to a Lord of the Lost concert: I generally don’t think it’s for kids younger than teenagers. But if they are brought along: 1. Ear protection, of course— 

Swiss: Yeah, 100%! 

Chris: —and 2. At the back! Put them on your shoulders. We sometimes have small club concerts where the kids stand in the front row with their chins on the edge of the stage. If the 2m tall guy at the back starts moshing, there’s a broken jaw at the front. These parents will never be happy again. We have people from the concert—I myself, in my position as a singer, because the security at the venue was too shitty to see that, I sent the people to the back. And I prefer… well, my problem at that moment is that you have to do it inconspicuously so that you don’t traumatize the kid, because the kid—you’re their favorite, you’re the singer of their favorite band, or their mom or dad’s favorite band. If the child gets the feeling that they’re going to be sent away— 

Swiss: Yes, yes.  

Chris: —that means you have to somehow manage to send the parent to the back and say *tones down his voice*: “Hey, guys, please leave.”

Swiss: Yes, yes. 

Chris: So. But to close the loop, um, you just have to—well, you can’t always just ask those around you to pay attention to their surroundings, you always have to do it yourself. Let’s say: “When I stand here…”—just like when you’re at a demonstration. If you’re at a demonstration and you want to be there to increase the size of the crowd, because it’s important to you to go. The more people there are, the greater the impact. Cool. If you’re at the back, probably not that much will happen to you. If you say you want stand there in the front, in the very first row— 

Swiss: With the black bloc³, and then you are annoyed—  

Chris: —are annoyed that— 

Swiss: —that Bengal lights are set off. 

Chris: Exactly. And if you accidentally get hit in the back of the head by a Molotov cocktail from the third row, then you can’t complain. It-It has to, it can happen. 

Swiss: Exactly. And there… so… to finish off from my side. So, the first point I wanted to say again, the issue of, well, “It’s forbidden or frowned upon for women in public”: what kind of revolution of our values or value system, that we don’t like, is it to say, “Well, if women aren’t allowed to do it, by law, then none of us will do it”? 

Chris: It’s antiquated. 

Swiss: Or must the move be to say, “Hey, we want every woman here to feel comfortable with it”? And if it starts here today that we, um, that we propagate it and say: here in this room, it should be like this, and we want it to be like this everywhere, and we want that in 20 years, women can lie in the park shirtless and not feel like a piece of sexualized meat, then we have to say that we want to normalize it. And that doesn’t work by… uh… making a taboo out of it and saying, “that’s forbidden and as long as it’s forbidden none of us will do it.” But we have to shake up this ban. That’s my opinion. And what you described with the mosh pit; I also think, um, people who are over the top in the mosh pit, they annoy me. On the other hand— 

Chris: Have you ever had to interrupt a song and said: “Guys, hey…” 

Swiss: Well, I sometimes—you’ve seen it with us a lot, it’s sometimes very, very wild and then after the second or third song you just say: “Hey guys, take care of each other.”— 

Chris: Yeah.  

Swiss: —“And I don’t want people to hurt themselves here.” And on the other hand, people go to a Swiss + Die Andern concert, do their Insta stories and say, “Oh, it’s so crazy here! Look where I was!” And on the other hand, you have people who say, “Wow, that’s too much!” And I always think that everyone at a concert, like you said, has to pay attention to which area of this concert they feel comfortable in. And you can’t always have everything everywhere. I can’t go to a shisha bar because the chai tastes so good and say: “When I’m there—   

Chris: *finishes Swiss’ sentence* There is no smoking.”

Swiss: —all pipes off. I can’t stand that at all.” It’s just that there are different rooms and I have to adapt. And then sit in this room, and sacrifice myself all the time, and create such a cult of sacrifice, and, *sounds tearful* “Now they’re all smoking here and yet I asked them not to do it.” Fuck off! So, and I think that’s a big point that people sometimes somehow don’t see that anymore. No? And that actually brings us back to my next point that I wanted to talk about today: um, representing an opinion or a value system on the internet or in public for likes and clicks, dear Christian. And I’m not pointing at you because I mean you. I know you’re not. But there was a discussion I had, for example, with, um, back then when Floyd⁴— what was his name? The, um, “I can’t breathe”… 

Chris: Yes, yes, yes.  

Swiss: Um… 

Chris: Nah, fuck. Crazy how fast you forget such names. 

Swiss: I have 50 Cent, Floyd Banks in my mind. But—  

Chris: Uh… 

Swiss: —Lloyd Banks. Um… 

Chris: Everyone knows who you mean.  

Swiss: You, you know whom I mean. And— 

Chris: Yes, of course. The one who had the policeman’s knee on his neck—  

Swiss: Exactly. Of that policeman who— 

Chris: —and who died, unfortunately.  

Swiss: Exactly. Who unfortunately died. And all of a sudden, which I also found very good, a huge wave of solidarity and raising awareness about systemic police violence. Racially motivated police violence in the US. And then I thought… I… you remember, that was the point where everyone changed their profile pictures to black—  

Chris: George Floyd was his name. 

Swiss: George Floyd. Um, rest in peace. Rest in power.  

Chris: Yeah. 

Swiss: Everyone made their profile pictures black and, um, I… as far as I know, actually originally the thought behind it was: “Hey, if we as the American… African-American community don’t broadcast in public, look how your culture and how everything is falling apart.” Somehow it morphed into every white person doing it and so on and so forth. And I didn’t. I didn’t do it back then. And I got a brutal number of messages: “Meh, that says a lot that you don’t make your, um, profile picture black. You have no solidarity!” And then I thought: “Yeah, OK, guys. Me, as the singer of this band, I honestly have to show my point of view right now? Guys?” And then it has a little bit— 

Chris: “Did you ever listen to me?” *laughs* 

Swiss: Exactly. That annoyed me a bit, because I had the feeling that anti-racism suddenly depended on a—in quotation marks— “cool hashtag” like “#icantbreathe”—

Chris: Yes, a hype, suddenly, right?

Swiss: Yes, and—

Chris: That was—

Swiss: And then I just thought, OK, but where were you all when Oury Jalloh⁵ burned in his cell? None of you talked about that! You were not here, and now that’s kind of an American thing that’s spilling over to us, and then you’re suddenly seeing some influencers who until that day only… um… only pushed some nutritional supplements, who are suddenly on these demonstrations and are making Insta videos of themselves, uhm, uhm, posting emotional statements against racism and so on, and I talked about it with Martin, right, our camera uhm—

Chris: Yes. I know.

Swiss: —uhm-uhm… sweetie uhm, he said, everything that brings attention to it is great. And I said, “yes, on the one hand, yes, and, on the other hand, I think that anti-racism shouldn’t be a hype topic.” Uhm—

Chris: Yes, but it is still good if waves get triggered. You know, sometimes things only work through a hype. I know exactly what you mean, it’s stupid when it gets hyped up because people do it because they themselves somehow get their clicks then, also there certainly were many among them who just said, “I’ll just jump onto the bandwagon as well”, like, “that somehow”, I don’t know, “provides me with a cool clean slate”, nice context, right? (“Weiße Weste”, meaning “clean slate”, literally translates to “white vest”.) In this case. Uhm… “I’ll show my—I’m going to stand up here”, but, on the other hand, I have to say that oftentimes people don’t dare to; sometimes a hype is needed for people to even realize, “I have to say something, I have to do something, I also have to stand up for something”, even if it might not have affected them at all. But it also encourages others to reflect, because you don’t know whom you reach with it. For example, Helene Fischer (famous German schlager singer) who now finally publicly made a big ruckus and spoke out against the AFD (far-right political party).

Swiss: Hey—

Chris: Where you’re thinking—

Swiss: —Bausa (German rapper)! Who was at “Schlag den Raab” (a TV game show) with a “fuck AFD” shirt!

Chris: Yes.

Swiss: I’ve seen it, that’s the very best thing that can happen at the moment that these people who are really famous in pop music, yeah—

Chris: Yes.

Swiss: —and actually have many, many young fans—

Chris: The really big ones, yes.

Swiss: —these ones politicize!

Chris: Yeah.

Swiss: So, props to these two at this point.

Chris: Yes, but that’s why—I understand what you mean; you can’t… Sometimes it’s difficult when it becomes a fad, but I think it’s good, I think it’s good to stand up for things that also may not affect and concern you directly; we get accused of something similar, for example, people say: "Why exactly are you waving the rainbow flag, why are you going to Christopher Street Day (the German equivalent to pride parade), none of you are even homosexual”; where I always think, “Oi, friends, in the world that I grew up in and in my circle of friends, even back in my youth, I noticed how much they are fighting, that there even has to be this reason—that there currently still has to be a reason to even wave a rainbow flag.” I don’t stand up for myself or because it somehow is a hype or because the rainbow is cool, but because it is important to me—

Swiss: Yes.

Chris: —to also fight for these people!

Swiss: And you also have always done that; when the spotlight on you wasn’t as big—

Chris: Yes, yes of course—

Swiss: —you were already doing that.

Chris: —I’ve always done that. But somewhere—I understand what you want so say—, but still somewhere there is the starting point, too!

Swiss: Maybe, but—

Chris: Maybe exactly a hype like that is the trigger for some of them to say, “Damn, fuck, I just woke up, I can’t just post my cool makeup tutorials, I—” of course it’s stupid if some just jump on the hype bandwagon because now George Floyd has died, um, because of an act of police violence—

Swiss: GOT died.

Chris: Got died, got killed, yes!

Swiss: Murdered!

Chris: But the thing is, maybe sometimes these things are necessary to wake up, to realize, “I have to do more.” I understand why the prob—why you have such a problem with the hype, and I felt the same way back then with the attack in Paris, in the Bataclan⁶, where there was a shooting at this concert, and I also had the feeling that everyone was making a Paris profile picture and “Do I have to do the same thing now, too?” Um, but maybe that’s the starting point that—the booster detonation, where some even begin to do something.

Swiss: I still have my profile picture “Je suis Paris”⁷, if you’re wondering, on MySpace.

Chris: On MySpace, yes! *laughs*

Swiss: Um, look, we talked about perspectives the other day.

Chris: Yes.

Swiss: And… I believe one thing that irritated me so much there, with this whole George Floyd discussion, I always had kind of a reflex in me, for as long as I can remember, that if many people are screaming a thing, propagating a thing, and demanding, then I can’t participate.

Chris: Exactly that’s why you’re doing the job that you do.

Swiss: Well, that is, uhm, uhm, I don’t want to… that as petulance or defiance, but rather… it irritates me at first. Why so many people are doing that at the moment, and I, um, also wondered, in this discussion, why it is like that. And as I said, I also had a totally heated discussion with our cameraman Martin, who makes our videos, and… I think my problem with that story was that I had the feeling that something as important as anti-racism, as pointing out systemic racism, um, pointing out police violence, that such an important topic suddenly gets abused. And thus for me—

Chris: For people’s own clicks—

Swiss: —loses importance.

Chris: —you mean?

Swiss: Exactly! And when I see the fitness influencer or the makeup influencer, or the fintech influencer, who, for the first time in their life, with this hashtag on their back, make these emotional posts for me, and show themselves at demonstrations, how they’re holding up a sign, where I’m thinking, “Oi, you’re in a demonstration for the first time in your life, and you never posted anything political or, yeah, that concerns us all”, I feel used to a degree.

Chris: I understand, BUT! BUT! You don’t know the true motive. I understand that with many it comes across that way, I believe that many instrumentalize—

Swiss: I’m imputing to these people, for a big part, I’m imputing to these people that they do it precisely NOT as you said, “It’s about doing something for others somehow”, but they only do it for themselves, to profit from this situation, in the form of clicks and attention, and that everyone says, “Oh, what a good guy!”

Chris: Yes, because it’s the currently trending hashtag, yeah.

Swiss: And that annoys me! And I always have the feeling that anti-racism, anti-sexism, pointing out systemic violence, right? That’s always easy if you’re on the big stage at Madison Square Garden—

Chris: Yes.

Swiss: —but with an out of tune violin, on the roadside, somewhere in Eastern Germany, to open the metaphor to Oury Jalloh—

Chris: Yes.

Swiss: —that’s what it’s about! This daily fight, this daily spreading of awareness, on a small scale.

Chris: But you can—

Swiss: That is important! And I have a feeling that these people jump on it for a quick moment, use it for themselves and forget it afterwards; and I find that with this on one hand, as you say, one provides a wide reach for such a topic, I like that, and that can’t be dismissed either, and on the other hand, for me it has a disgusting aftertaste because it has something so infamous to it, you’re just exploiting this topic that’s so serious, that’s so existential for many people on this world, and jump onto it, surf a bit for your clicks and for your attention, for your greenwashing or however you want to call it in that case, you’re quickly surfing along, and then you piss off again—

Chris: Yup.

Swiss: —and sell nutrition, uhm, nutritional supplements. And that disgusted me so much!

Chris: My hope with this is—uhm, or, well, on one hand there is the hope that through this, people who simply didn’t know it are reached, because many people live in a bubble and don’t notice it. Maybe they even just got to know about the George Floyd story due to these influencers. Because they are the only ones that they follow. That means my hope is always that despite this exploitation something positive happens. And that—

Swiss: Why—

Chris: —is maybe my tendency to optimism. And on the other hand, I think-I know exactly what you mean, and I also believe that statistically a majority of the people are just freeloaders for clicks, for a hype, but you can’t and mustn’t impute that to everyone, I believe; maybe there are also people who actually woke up and said, “Fuck, I have to do more.”

Swiss: Yes that—I’m not saying—

Chris: And briefly—sorry—to conclude this, for me, at least, I believe that the fight that one is fighting, and especially, for example if we’re talking about anti-racism, or the rights of homosexual people and so on, that is not something where “the squirrel can eat laboriously” (“Mühsam ernährt sich das Eichhörnchen” is a German phrase for a long, arduous task) and nibble piece by piece; there will always be catastrophes that trigger waves that lead to freeloaders, but hopefully it’s sustainable again, and again reach more people and bigger masses through that. And I believe it—this point will always come, where you say, “Fuck, dude, you’re instrumentalizing that”, and many exploit that for themselves, but I have hope that these waves will make things move, and I also believe that—

Swiss: “I have a dream”, you can say it.

Chris: Yes, “I have a dream”, and I also believe that only through such waves something can shift. And sometimes that only works with a hype, as shitty as it is. Because—

Swiss: I—

Chris: Do you believe that otherwise it will, slowly, piece by piece, that anything would move at all, if really only the alternative culture nibbles piece by piece and works on it and fights; I don’t believe it!

Swiss: I wish it were like that, um, as you say, on the other hand, especially in this respect I have— Oury Jalloh for example, I did not feel that this discussion, uhm, and George Floyd, led to suddenly a huge eye being cast to these events again, that happened here in Germany, so where was the demonstration with thousands [of people] in front of the police station where he very obviously got killed?

Chris: Yes.

Swiss: Do you understand? It’s always the far left then, who point it out, at every anniversary, doing commemorations, and so on and so forth. And these—well, maybe it’s a very… populistic imputation by me, but it’s my imputation that I’m saying that the fitness influencer who shortly made a great profit with George Floyd, for two, three, four weeks or a month, he isn’t there. To some I’m doing—

Chris: But you have to be careful—

Swiss: Gimme a moment, to some I’m doing an injustice with that, a hundred percent, and there really is something to what you are saying; but I think in this day and age, and maybe we should talk about that more extensively next time, I think that people are using opinions, convictions… as a kind of lifestyle add-on.

Chris: Definitely.

Swiss: With which they present themselves. Also, when people are writing, like—

Chris: To show depth. I know.

Swiss: —if people are writing on Instagram, yeah… uhm… yeah, I don’t know, vegan, 161 (standing for the letters AFA, “Antifaschistische Aktion”, meaning “anti-fascist action”), this, like, “Why do you have to write that?”

Chris: Yes.

Swiss: Why do you have to put it on display like that? Simply don’t EAT pork, you idiot. Why do you have to show it? Why do you have to play that attitude like that, and… uhm, uhm, yeah, turn it into a showcase? I think that’s often, in my opinion, just purely positioning yourself like a brand. Uhm… And I disapprove of that.

Chris: To me it’s just important that if you criticize a hype like that, that you don’t suddenly do yourself what I hate the most with many [people], that is whataboutism.

Swiss: Yes.

Chris: That you’re saying, like, “aha, the thing with George Floyd, you think that’s shit, but that’s a problem too, that’s a problem too”, that’s almost as if you’re saying you’re going, I don’t know, you… on breast cancer day you’re making a post, and then people are saying, “and what about testicular cancer?”

Swiss: Yes, yes.

Chris: You know?

Swiss: One hundred percent, but—

Chris: That’s what I mean. I know what you mean, but you have to be careful not to become a whataboutism representative yourself. I think.

Swiss: A hundred—you’re right. But in some cases, I think, there is also “allaboutism”.

Chris: *laughs* Yes, of course!

Swiss: Right? And sometimes you also have to say, “yes, right”, and the thing that we’re currently seeing in the USA is… We also have, as this hype community, to look at Germany here, what is, was and will be the case here, with us. Um, these are definitely big topics—

Chris: Dude, I am—since you’re mentioning the USA—, we’ll be there in September, on tour, and it’s an election year again—

Swiss: Yes. Hoo!

Chris: —so, I’m totally curious; we’re doing, I don’t know, 12 shows there or something, and, of course, we’re getting to know a few things, what’s happening in the different states there, so, I, uhm…

Swiss: I hope the mi—

Chris: I think there will be much to say.

Swiss: I hope you skip the Midwest shows—

Chris: Yes.

Swiss: —but if at all, you’ll be playing in the bigger cities, right?

Chris: Yes, yes, of course. I mean, you’ll hardly experience, like, real Bible Belt village folks.

Swiss: Yeah…

Chris: Like. But—

Swiss: No. Well, yeah, that is absolutely exciting.

Chris: This! You—I already have—you know, that—I also brought some FUNNY things for a change, and I did not get to them again! But I actually quite like that.

Swiss: Yes, tell one funny thing—

Chris: No, no, really.

Swiss: —and look, we are about—

Chris: Yes, we don’t have to—

Swiss: Look, we still have five-ten minutes.

Chris: Well, we have to overrun for a few minutes, because we still have to briefly talk about the names…

Swiss: Oi, now I’m intrigued by what you deem funny, because—the Chris Harms humor, because I’ve actually never experienced it.

Chris: Yes, what I—

Swiss: That you drop on me something that really makes you laugh.

Chris: What I—

Swiss: One always sees you with a frown, that one knows what DOES he find fun?

Chris: Well, what I find funny, and I also would not want to give the solution NOW, but actually rather in the next episode, but I would like to know your answer; I came up with a rubric that one can do every now and then, that we can tell each other, I’ll just call it “three stories, one lie”, uhm—

Swiss: Ah, YOU came up with it!

Chris: Yes. Of course, duh.

Swiss: Interesting.

Chris: Everything funny that we’re doing here—

Swiss: Interesting!

Chris: —was invented by me.

Swiss: Well, the stories we haven’t told yet. I will so win this.

Chris: Listen: uhm, I’m presenting them very briefly and you’re telling me… uhm… you’re telling me which are true. And next time I’ll give the solution. So, three stories, one lie, story one: once at work I —I still worked as a lecturer back then—uhm, one day, during the break, because I had diarrhea without noticing it, I completely shat myself, had to go wash my trousers in the sink, and for the rest of the day I taught with wet trousers—

Swiss: Everyone knows that that happened to me as well. That one is true, I think.

Chris: Uhm, then, uhm, uhm— *laughs* my father and I, when I was 16, we practiced driving in a parking lot, we both got taken in by the police there, of course, we got caught, and, uhm… I had in my wild young years, I had a liaison at the same time with a mother and daughter without knowing that they were mother and daughter, and that they knew each other.

Swiss: Whoa, I want number one to be true, but I believe that number three is true.

Chris: No, it’s three stories, one lie.

Swiss: Ah, ONE lie!

Chris: One lie.

Swiss: Well, the one—

Chris: One lie is among them.

Swiss: I think the one with your father. That you got walked off.

Chris: That’s the lie. OK.

Swiss: You’ll give the solution next time.

Chris: I’ll give the solution next time.

Swiss: OK, then we should quickly, so we don’t… uhm… overrun, we should quickly…

Chris: The people can also write in the comments what they think is the lie.

Swiss: Exactly.

Chris: That’s very important.

Swiss: Definitely. People, what you have to do anyway is subscribing to us on Spotify, leaving a cool review, following us, Swiss+Harms on—

Chris: The couple podcast. (as in a romantic couple)

Swiss: @swissundharms—uhm, you’re completely distracting me—

Chris: Sorry.

Swiss: —I just wanted to go over our advertisement trailer—

Chris: OK, alright.

Swiss: —following us on Instagram, @swissundharms, there are really always the very, very best news for you, if you like this podcast, share it, come to our concerts, blah, blah, and so on and so forth. We want to go through what could be potential name additions for Swiss+Harms again.

Chris: Exactly. Because—well, I am actually— we already talked about that, I would also be in favor of saying, “We’ll stay with Swiss+Harms”, and have an additional title, like “Judgment Day”.

Swiss: Can’t it vary each time, actually?

Chris: Yes, it can, of course.

Swiss: Right? Yes. But say a few of them.

Chris: But a few, they are actually things that were posted by the people out there, a few things that came to my mind, as well, uhm… There are a few favorites of ours, as well that I got out, a few things I also find stupid, though, but…

Swiss: Oi, say, are they towing my car over there? Say—read it out, I’ll quickly look out of the window.

Chris: Look out of the window.

*noises of Swiss moving*

Chris: I’ll continue there in a moment.

Swiss: No. It’s the garbage disposal.

Chris: *laughs*

Swiss: Oi, oi, oi.

Chris: Yeah, these guys—

Swiss: I mean, I don’t drive a car, of course! I meant my cargo bike.

Chris: Yes, yes. Yes, yes.

Swiss: Cool.

Chris: Uhm… Well. Very classic: “Swiss+Harms – The Podcast”. I find that really boring. Uhm, “Alternative Pod Culture”, I found really cool.

Swiss: Oh, I think that’s a bit over—

Chris: Is it too intellectual for you?

Swiss: —over refined.

Chris: You can’t keep up with that? Yeah, I can understand that.

Swiss: Well, yeah, I don’t know, it’s just this—

Chris: Very great, I still like “Does one have to know them?”

Swiss: I also find “Does one have to know them?” cool!

Chris: Yes. Uhm…

Swiss: Because it also shows that we have a sense of humor—well, that I have a sense of humor that… rubs off on you.

Chris: Yes. I think, “Let them talk” is nice, but it’s too much Ärzte (“Lasse redn.”“Lass sie reden”/“Let them talk” is a song title by Die Ärzte), with all due respect, I’d find it disrespectful to steal it from Die Ärzte.

Swiss: If you were named “Lasse”, then it would be cool. “Lasse redn.”

Chris: And you “Redn”.

Swiss: And I “Redn”. Mr. Von Redn.

Chris: Yes. “Toxic unicorns” isn’t really relevant, even if it sounds cool.

Swiss: I didn’t even know that I had suggested that. Allegedly.

Chris: Yeah, yes, you did.

Swiss: Doesn’t matter, go on. We don’t have time.

Chris: “Soup culture”, “self-help group”, what I found very nice is that someone wrote beneath it: “please don’t.” But I think he—

Swiss: Yeah…

Chris: But I think he didn’t intend it to be a title, but I would find it nice, “Swiss+Harms”—

Both: “Please don’t.”

Chris: *laughs*

Swiss: I also once had… I actually once had a song called “Selbshilfegruppe” (“self-help group”)—

Chris: But for me it’s too—

Swiss: Years ago, that is somehow—

Chris: Yes.

Swiss: Screw it.

Chris: From “Pech und Schwefel” (“pitch and sulfur”, meaning two people sticking together like glue) some got to “frech und Schwafel” (“cheeky and rambling”); uhm… I found the suggestion complicated, but I have to read it out: “HarmSS” with two capital S at the end. And there I understand—probably because of “Harms” and then “Swiss”, but honestly, “HarmSS”?

Swiss: No.

Chris: And with two capital S, I don’t see it like that…

Swiss: That’s where my punk factor stops! If I had a double S like that, in capital letters, in my name.

Chris: “Versorgte Bürger” (“provided citizens”, in reference to “besorgte Bürger”, “worried citizens”, as some people call themselves to justify their right-wing tendencies); uh, “The latex boy and the wannabe punk”, I understand why one would call me a wannabe punk; although I don’t understand why someone calls you a latex boy. *laughs* But—

Swiss: I think they just meant you with both.

Chris: I see!

Swiss: *laughs*

Chris: What?

Swiss: It was these egocentric Lost fans who lunged at you there!

Chris: Is “Missglückter Podcast” (“failed podcast”, in reference to Swiss’ label “Missglückte Welt”) too much—

Swiss: *moans*

Chris: —too much Swiss world?

Swiss: Not at all. There really was nothing for me in there, Christian, can you just continue?

Chris: The ones down there?

Swiss: (quietly) … uhm.

Chris: “Scene traitors”… I found “Blutsbrüder*innen”⁸ very nice…

*laughter*

Swiss: “Blutsbrüder*innen”. “Kolleg*innen”.

Chris: Uhm, “Northern Talking” (in reference to Modern Talking). *laughs*

Swiss: Noo. “Northern Talking”?

Chris: I find that REALLY good! But it’s too—well, it isn’t just about the north here. Uhm, I found, uhm, “Wut und Glitzer” (“Fury and Glitter”; “Wut” sounds similar to “Blut”, which means “blood” in German) really nice…

Swiss: “Wut und Glitzer”.

Chris: But it’s too much only Lord of the Lost; I really liked “Tellerrand” (“looking beyond the edge of the plate” means to look beyond the edge of one’s nose), and what I actually myself—what else did we have? “Bottomless pit”… Right, what came to my mind this morning, too, “zwischen Tour und Angel” (“Zwischen Tour und Angel” is a reference to the saying “zwischen Tür und Angel” [“between door and hinge”, which means “in passing”]). I liked that.

Swiss: Because you’re fishing or what? (“Angel” can mean “hinge”, but also “fishing rod”.)

Chris: Exactly. No, we—“angel”—

Swiss: What does that—

Chris: —because I believe in angels.

Swiss: Between door and… angel… OK.

Chris: No because “Between door and hinge”, “between door and angel”.

Swiss: Yes, yes, I already understand!

Chris: Should I explain the pun to you?

Swiss: Thank you for explaining it!

Chris: Tour/door (“Door” is said “Tür” in German), that is about the same—well—

Swiss: Yes, it’s OK.

Chris: Should I—

Swiss: Uhm… so, that’s your favorite, you say?

Chris: Yes. “Does one have to know them?”

Swiss: Well “Does one have to know them?”—

Chris: “Between tour and hinge”, I find both of them cool, but—

Swiss: OK, people—

Chris: —maybe tomorrow it will be something different.

Swiss: —for Christian’s sake, write into the comments on—

Chris: And “Judgment Day”!

Swiss: —Instagram “Judgment”— although, can I put a veto, “Judgment Day” is kind of…—

Chris: We are two people, there we both can—because that’s the problem!

Swiss: Let’s put “Between door and hinge”, uhm, and “Does one have to know them?” up for the choice. As a temporary subtitle, yes? We can always—

Chris: Honestly, if needed, if we aren’t satisfied with anything, I’m completely happy with “Swiss+Harms”.

Swiss: “The Podcast”, I think so, as well. OK, people, what we also have to clarify—

Chris: Yes?

Swiss: —that would also be—

Chris: We’ll clarify that outside.

Swiss: —Do we need a jingle?

Chris: You said you like it, by now I like it, too, and I would—

Swiss: We’ve already overrun a lot.

Chris: I, yeah, next week I would make a few jingle, I’ll make a few layouts—

Swiss: Gladly.

Chris: —I’ll show you something.

Swiss: I would really like a woman with an Eastern European accent—don’t ask me why, but I’m kinda feeling it—to introduce us.

Chris: *in a fake Eastern European accent* The podcast in color and colorful.

Swiss: No “the podcast in color and colorful, Swiss+Harms.” Somehow I find—

Chris: *still with an accent* Har-Harms!

Swiss: Yes—I find it very cool, I’m kinda feeling it; you (the audience) can also say what you think about it.

Chris: Yes, I would rather do something cool.

Swiss: That is COOL, dude! Bro, learn! Style, bro! Yeah, what, “cool”, you’d make a hard metal out of it again, with DAAA DUM-DAAA! *makes metal noises* BOOO!

Chris: No, I thought of a cool power metal with a very high-pitched male singing and—

Swiss: *laughs*

Chris: —where there is only MY name.

*laughter*

Chris: I’ll show you a few things next week, don’t worry.

Swiss: OK. Come on, cool. Well, people, I hope you liked it, Christian and Werner are on their way—

Chris: Yes.

Swiss: —on their ways,—

Chris: Ways. We’re going different ways.

Swiss: —and we’ll see each other and hear each other again in two weeks. Stay as you are.

Chris: No.

Swiss: And change—no!

Both: DON’T stay as you are.

Swiss: Whoa, I recently wrote a cool piece with someone else, and there we have the line—

Chris: You’re writing with someone else?

Swiss: It is not your fault that you are as you are, it would only be your fault if you stayed like that. Which band did I cite there?

Chris: Die Toten Hosen, bye, see you next week.

Swiss: Bye!

 

1: The Anarchistic Pogo Party of Germany (German: Anarchistische Pogo-Partei Deutschlands, or 'APPD') is the self-declared party of the Pöbel (mob) and “social parasites”. APPD - Wikipedia

2: The domiciliary right is based on the German constitutional right of inviolability of the home. In this respect, the nightclub owner can set rules with which the customers shall comply.

3: A black bloc (sometimes black block) is a tactic used by protesters who wear black clothing, ski masks, scarves, sunglasses, motorcycle helmets with padding or other face-concealing and face-protecting items. The clothing is used to conceal wearers’ identities and hinder criminal prosecution by making it difficult to distinguish between participants. It is also used to protect their faces and eyes from pepper spray, which is used by police during protests or civil unrest. The tactic also allows the group to appear as one large unified mass. Black bloc participants are often associated with anarchism, anarcho-communism, communism, libertarian socialism and the anti-globalization movement. Black bloc - Wikipedia 

4: George Floyd was a black man who was strangled to death by a police officer in the USA after suspicions that he might have paid with a counterfeit bill, despite pleading that he couldn’t breathe. Murder of George Floyd - Wikipedia

5: Oury Jalloh was a black man that was allegedly intentionally burned to death in his prison cell while being chained to his mattress; racist motives are very likely. Death of Oury Jalloh - Wikipedia

6: The Bataclan is a music venue in Paris, which was one of the targets of terrorist attacks in 2015. November 2015 Paris attacks - Wikipedia

7: “Je suis Paris” is a slogan of solidarity, coined after “Je suis Charlie”, which was used after the attack onto the satirical newspaper Charlie Hebdo for drawing a caricature of the prophet Mohammed. Je suis Charlie - Wikipedia

 8: “Blutsbrüder” means “blood brothers”, but the female ending “-innen” and an asterisk got added; this way of writing is used in many words where the masculine form is the default, in an attempt to make the German language inclusive to all genders, which some people are unreasonably mad about.

 

 

Translation: Margit Güttersberger, Jeany Fischer, Elisabeth Czermack, Jari Witt

Proofreading: Gaëlle Darde