Listen to the Episode HERE!

 

 

Class Grenayde – “Stagedive into the hyperfocus”

 

 

Description of the episode:

Klaas Helmecke aka Class Grenayde, bassist of Pi’s band Lord Of The Lost, is our guest of honor today! He and Pi have traveled half the world in the last 9 years, experienced an incredible number of things together on tour, which will be shared with you here. Apart from that, we talk about social media and why you are yourself part of the problem of the eternal, perfect self-portrayal on Instagram and Co. What has #nofilter done to our self-esteem and how does Klaas deal with it? Which punk bands does Klaas swear by? And when will you see him and Pi crowdsurfing again? Find all of this out here today!

 

Jessica: Today I won’t fall for it and just start talking, but I’ll wait until you press “record”.

Pi: I have already pressed “record”.

Jessica: You are such a dick! I fall for it every time. Okay.

Pi: This way you sound spontaneous at least.

Jessica: Hello! Hello and a hearty welcome to Gina’s Room. I’ve been taken for a ride again—Pi, I will take my revenge on you.

Pi: I’m not taking the piss, I’m doing this for data security reasons.

Jessica: Yeah, yeah. Okay.

Pi: And lest I forget, this is the first thing I do. A hearty welcome to Gina’s Room. Today’s guest: a person with whom I have literally traveled at least half the world, and it is none other than “Klaus Granate”.

Class: Yo.

Jessica: Klaus Granate—I am very excited, a hearty welcome!

Class: Yeah, moin, moin, moin, moin (northern German for “hello”). Nice to be here—here in my place, well in ours, it’s actually pretty cool if you get invited more or less in your own place.

Pi: Yeah, it’s nice.

Class: It’s nice, I’m looking forward to a cool conversation.

Jessica: Today I already have a real, I don’t know, homey feeling somehow; we had dinner together…

Pi: Yeah.

Jessica: We made things together—we’ll get to those in a minute—and we’re snuggled up here on the couch in the Lord Of The Lost Museum, and I’m—

Pi: [The] Lost Place.

Jessica: Yeah. *laughs* And I—

Class: Both Lost Place and Museum.

Jessica: —yeah and I’m totally looking forward to… I have a lot of questions for you; the thing is, Pi knows you really well, or to be more precise, how long have you been...?

Class and Pi: *both calculating*

Pi: Since 2015.

Class: Since 2015.

Jessica: That’s crazy. Okay, look, I haven’t known you that long, and I always find that really interesting, so I did a bit of research on the Internet to see what can be found about you.

Class: And the funny thing is, I was afraid, because we’d had such a good chat beforehand already, that we’d practically have nothing left to talk about, but I think…

Jessica: No, I don’t think so.

Class: When do we actually get to taste the gin?

Jessica: Not yet.

Class: I’m just thirsty.

Pi: Yeah. I see.

Jessica: It’s not ready yet.

Class: I’m just thirsty, I could just have as well taken water.

Pi: Yeah.

Class: I forgot it.

Pi: If you’re that thirsty, we drink first and then we’ll give away, what it was.

Jessica: Okay, we drink first then—reactions…

Class: I brought a drink with me.

Pi: Cheers.

Class: Cheers.

Pi: Get it in.

Jessica: Turbines on. Wow.

Class: Very refreshing.

Jessica: Oh!

Class: Ayran (Turkish drink made of yoghurt, water and salt), but cool. And vegan. And without it tasting like Ayran that much.

Jessica: Well, folks, we always drink our guests’ favorite drink, and Class—what awesome thing have you brought us today?

Class: Wait a second, I need to take one more sip—

Pi: Smells nice.

Class: I have actually brought a brand new favorite of mine with me, a—in this case—vegan piña colada, without alcohol, so: virgin colada—

Pi: Yo.

Class: —vegan, I drank it vegetarian with cream, though.

Jessica: Okay.

Class: In fact, both have their appeal, as I have just discovered, and I drank it for the first time two weeks ago in the Dominican Republic, at a stop at the 70000 Tons of Metal—

Pi: *whistles*

Class: —where we played, and it’s a festival on a ship—

Jessica: Mm-hmm.

Class: —there are people who don’t know us—

Pi: Yeah, yeah.

Class: —with our band Lord Of The Lost, right, and we made a stop there in the Dominican Republic, and I went to the beach, along with an elderly couple from Kiel (town in Northern Germany), who were on the ship also.

Jessica: Greetings to them!

Pi: You needed to go to the Dom. Rep. to get to know a couple from Kiel!

Class: I sat there with them, they were really nice and somehow, I ended up being the center of the conversation, because they were on the ship because of us, among other things—

Jessica: Cool!

Class: —to listen to metal bands, and then—what was his name? Thomas, I think… I’m bad at remembering names—he went, “You! May I invite for a drink?” And I was like, “Yeah, let’s see.” I thought I was planning on going to go snorkeling later, so I went for a virgin piña colada, and they got the same thing, too, and so we drank it there, and it was really, really tasty.

Jessica: Cool!

Class: Of course, it tastes especially cool on the beach.

Jessica: I was just about to ask: do you get that feeling now? We are in St. Pauli right now, that’s a bit different from the Dom. Rep., but does it give you that…

Class: It’s better than e.g. drinking ouzo in Greece compared to—in Germany, it just tastes shitty. Actually, it also tastes shitty in Greece, but there you are full of happiness, so…

Jessica: And full.

Pi: And full.

Class: Well, it is really a very nice drink, and both the vegan and the vegetarian version have their advantages.

Jessica: Cool! I like it a lot, thank you very much—

Pi: Absolutely.

Jessica: —for bringing it.

Class: With real vanilla, even though I feel like you can’t really taste it.

Jessica: You can! I am… at least it is visible.

Pi: You can see that Class has scraped out a whole vanilla pod by hand and with great precision maneuvered it in.

Jessica: Thank you, Class. Really cool.

Class: “Butter bei die Fische jetzt.” (a northern German saying in dialect, which literally translates to: “butter to the fish”, willingly spoken with a wrong article. It means: let’s get to the point)

Jessica: I have—I always do that, but today it’s the first time I make it public—for 16 episodes I have—today is the 16^th episode, right?

Pi: Yeah, it’s the 16^th.

Jessica: For 16 episodes, I’ve been secretly analyzing our guests for myself—in other words, based on the drink. So to speak.

Pi: Okay.

Jessica: So, if now—I don’t know—guest X has brought this and that drink, then I think to myself, “That fits because…”, or I can imagine why he came up with exactly this and that.

Pi: Mm-hmm.

Jessica: And—about the piña colada—well, there’s a myth that the piña colada is the exact opposite of a gin and tonic.

Class: That makes sense.

Jessica: Exactly, so in terms of flavors.

Pi: Mm-hmm.

Jessica: Sweet, fruity versus bitter, very tart—in terms of looks…

Class: Also clear, yes. Well, not always clear, I think, but in principle, yes.

Jessica: Exactly, yes. A piña colada is not as minimalist as a gin and tonic, I’d say, maybe you need a lemon somehow or something else with the piña colada.

Class: Mm-hmm.

Jessica: So, we have some really great decorations in here, we have pineapple slices and the crown of a pineapple.

Pi: Yeah.

Jessica: And… right, there is actually a very well-known study that came from—I don’t know—the University of Innsbruck or something like that…

Pi: Very well known, as one can see!

Jessica: No, it has really been said very often that people who drink gin and tonic are sadists and psychopaths.

Pi: True, that has been said often.

Jessica: Exactly, that’s this dark triad of completely narcissistic, far too self-confident, almost aggressive man—so, if you like bitter things, me for example, I love coffee, I love radishes, I love dark chocolate, I’m completely the kind of person who just likes bitter things—

Pi: Mm-hmm.

Jessica: I am the exception, though, as I am totally nice.

Pi: I see. I just find it really cool that you keep saying that about yourself. Just keep talking.

Jessica: Right! And I… well, good. I don’t know how you can project that onto both—but the absolute opposite of that is, of course, a very harmonious, very loving, very attentive person.

Pi: What did you just say?

Jessica: And I would say—I would say that this is actually the case, that you are a very, very nice and open person, and…

Class: Thank you very much!

Jessica: So, my analysis—awesome, right? You understand it.

Class: Not completely. My problem with these kinds of things is that I also drink gin and tonic.

Jessica: Maybe you are both then.

Class: Maybe I am balanced.

Jessica: Mm-hmm. Great.

Class: You recently said, with a particular pair of glasses I looked like Jeffrey Dahmer.

Jessica: Now that’s a nice compliment! *in a sarcastic tone*

Class: If you just see in what a charming way this person has approached people, and the way he has shown his “piña colada”, just to in the end fill himself up with gin and tonic.

Pi: Gin and tonic in a piña colada glass.

Class: Yeah. By killing his boys. But I hope it is rather a balance with me and not two different sides/personalities.

Pi: Let’s put it that way: from my experience, you are a very caring person.

Class: Awww thank you.

Pi: You’re welcome. Class always has some cream cake for everyone in his carry-on baggage when we get on the tour bus.

Class: Not always! It depends on how I feel, if it’s not too late—like, if we leave at 10 p.m., it’s still possible to eat cake.

Jessica: Yes, of course!

Pi: Perfect time for a cake. Class always thinks about everyone, this can definitely be confirmed. How does your gin and tonic fits into the equation then, I don’t know, but piña colada in this case—I’d kinda prefer that, too. I would like to know from you briefly, as we, for the most part, have spoken about it—

Class: Who am I anyway? Do people know that already? Or is that…?

Pi: Yeah, we briefly mentioned it, but what I’m getting at…

Class: We played on this 70000 Tons of Metal cruise, because I am in a band with Pi.

Jessica: What is the name of your band?

Class: I play the bass, Pi plays the guitar.

Pi: The name of our band is Nachtblut *laughs*—is Lord Of The Lost. We have for the most part spoken about how we all found that cruise totally awesome, but we never spoke about this, if we have thought about this 70000 Tons of Metal thing, on a cruise ship, what is cool about it, what is maybe not so cool about it, did you maybe have such a “no—yeah” feeling about it?

Class: Prior to it, I had also already thought that it is maybe really cool, but, on the other hand, also questionable, due to the fact that cruise ships are not the best thing for our planet, but in principle it was really cool, it’s a cool thing, and apart from—yes, I wouldn’t go on a private cruise because there I couldn’t be in a place for long enough to get to know the city and the people, you’re more or less among yourselves all the time, with your privileged guests in most cases, and you can look out to the sea. Then I would actually prefer—if it’s for long-term—to have a beach from where I can look out to the sea.

Jessica: Yes.

Pi: Yes.

Class: But to actually work on such a ship, to entertain people, to move around on this ship and be with like-minded “brothers in metal”, if you want to put it that way—

Jessica: Yeah.

Class: It’s fun, and it’s not for nothing that everyone, including the crew members, the people who work on the ship every day, the people who deal with all the people, say that the metal fans per se are actually some of the nicest guests on this ship, because they don’t do that that often; they usually can’t afford it and are simply happy about every little thing and attention from the crew, and enjoy it, and don’t have too high expectations, because the standard is just so cool and so high already. That is really cool and it’s great fun, the people are cool, you have contact with the fans, but that’s pleasant—it’s generally pleasant with fans, but normally it’s rather “everyone does their own thing”.

Jessica: Mm-hmm.

Class: It’s a lot of fun.

Pi: It’s just amazing that it’s ALWAYS so pleasant, because there you generally have no barrier, or no place to retreat to, these boundaries between… so this existing … yes, “man-made hierarchy” from fans to artists, it’s totally blurred because everyone goes to the same buffet, everyone goes to the same whirlpool—

Class: Exactly!

Pi: And that’s totally cool, you know, that’s what’s really stuck in my memory, that everyone there—

Jessica: And that—

Pi: —that everyone is easy-going.

Jessica: Yes exactly! Was that then also respected by the fans—because you just said that you were all on the same level, so to speak, you were all on the same ship, you all used the same buffet, everything was so great—was that then also respected by the people a bit?

Pi: Yes, absolutely.

Class: Totally. 

Jessica: That’s cool!

Class: I’d say the most “invasive” thing you got from people was, “hey, great show” and stuff like that, “that was really cool” and “I’m coming today too” or “I wasn’t there yesterday but I’m coming to the show today”, but that’s really cool actually.

Jessica: Okay. Speaking of the stage show—I have actually—

Pi: Researched.

Jessica: Yeah, no—what does “I have researched” mean, I just did a little—

Pi: Took a peek.

Jessica: What… what do the people see about you, and I came across a really funny statement, it says on the Internet that you are very well known for your very lively stage show.

Class: I see.

Jessica: *laughs* And—I have to be honest, I think it’s just super funny, “lively stage show” —but I also have to say, when I saw you live for the first time, Class—you’re, well, you’re just so badass and cool on stage, you’ve got such cool moves, so—"lively” is more…

Class: Yes. I also see it myself… what does “lively” mean there, I have the feeling that I like to dance sometimes, which is perhaps a bit lively at times, but very agile, to an extent, also, of course, you’re more likely to hear that about a pet, which is lively. Like a squirrel or something, which is lively.

Pi: See, that’s exactly what I thought about: a squirrel.

Class: The lively squirrel—that’s what you say.

Jessica: The lively squirrel! *in a dreamy tone* I find that great. Already in the episode that I did with Nicolai (Nicolai Hoch, bassist from Set Your Sails)—you can listen to that episode—I said that I’ve always wished to be a bassist, which is funny—I dunno, I just find that supercool. And when I saw you live for the first time, I immediately noticed that you are a bit, I dunno, a bit more relaxed there somehow, you somehow have such a nice aura around you.

Class: Yeah.

Jessica: I found that very interesting.

Class: Sometimes I think that I might be too boring or something, which might be due to a lack of self-confidence or something like that.

Jessica: Yeah. Okay.

Class: Once, when we played at VW in the Autostadt (hall in Wolfsburg), it was actually said afterwards that “The bassist Class remained rather inconspicuous”. Not that that’s really a bad thing, but I was like, “Hmmm, well… no idea, what I did there.” But that can happen, of course.

Pi: What random people—sorry to all the people who write concert reviews—write there is their own perception and their own taste, that’s—

Class: Yeah. But you have to admit that the whole band is always very active.

Jessica: Yes, definitely.

Class: And that’s the good thing that you can just “lean back” if you don’t have the energy that day, that you still bring your standard to the stage, but maybe don’t take it to the extreme, as it can sometimes be. That’s another good thing that it’s not necessarily that noticeable if you still perform more than many other bands, but that you still maybe say, “oh, today I’m going to lean back into the safety net that the guys provide.”

Jessica: I see. You kind of step in for each other a bit, don’t you?

Pi: But do you actively think about that on stage, though?

Class: Sometimes I think about it, when I have the feeling that I am not able to get in the zone, this—I wouldn’t call it “rage” now or something, but there are some extremes, you go into a trance… That can happen sometimes, that I simply… It’s not like it would happen at every other show, but if I just don’t feel something, if I feel a bit empty, then it might happen that you think you can’t do everything.

Pi: Yes, I also know the feeling that you sometimes just don’t get in the zone so easily, for whatever reason, there are days where your mind is somewhere else all day long, and you think that a show that you play lets you forget all of this, this dream vision of “awh, here I am right at the very moment now!”—and you can just get started—but that sometimes just doesn’t work. How do you make sure that it’s still nice for you on stage? Because that’s ultimately what it’s all about. So, for me, it’s also about having fun on stage.

Class: For me it’s not that it’s not nice in this case, but that I—the bad thing is then you start to think, and if you start to think, you are less good. In my opinion, music should always just “happen” somehow. So, how do I…? Most of the time things happen by themselves, be it that you see someone in the audience who is totally happy or something like that, then you are immediately carried away. Or somehow, I don’t know, you turn around and someone’s there laughing on stage or something—well, it does happen, it always happens quite quickly—and in the worst case I know, “Okay, maybe it’ll be better tomorrow, then I’ll just be pro today”— but mostly, for some reason, because there are always songs that take you away, where it’s always like, “Oh, now it doesn’t matter, now I can be happy, everything’s fine.”  

Jessica: Mm-hmm. Okay. Do you have the feeling that if you take some distance from playing live, that’s a question for both of you actually, that means, if for a while you have a break from playing live or if you don’t play for a while, that you are a bit more “detached” then, that the distance from it for a bit creates the energy somehow? That when you are playing for the 17^th day in a row, it becomes kind of a mini-routine, such a daily routine, and that therefore your mind happens to drift to other things more often and you cannot that easily —how did you so nicely call that in the last episode, Pi?—get lost in the music? So, do you have the feeling that distance sometimes helps a bit there?

Class: It can be both. Sometimes it’s the case, that because you have played so many shows, that you can play it really cool, in a positive way (he used a word that rather describes “carelessly playing it”). 

Jessica: Mm-hmm.

Class: That you are simply well attuned. You don’t think anymore, you just jump around, you feel fit on that day, there are so many things—the food was good, the city was fun—that also largely ensures that you can simply put on a really great show, that you feel good somehow in that place or in that moment.

Jessica: Yeah.

Class: Sometimes it can be, though, that you have less energy. In any case, it’s been good to take a step back and simply do completely different things.

Pi: Mm-hmm.

Class: Where you just simply—but that’s totally normal— everything in this world can be so cool—if it’s not a drug that in the end destroys you, but if you keep saying, “Well, now I’m going to take a little break, so that I really feel like going back on stage”, be it that I go to a concert or alike, where I rediscover this desire to do so. That you stand there as a fan yourself, where you say, “They have such fun on stage, it’s so cool, in four weeks it starts for me again, too!”

Jessica: Mm-hmm.  

Class: And I think it’s actually better to play gigs every now and then than to have a long break.

Jessica: I see. That would also be a burning question for me, how to keep this balance between these two incredible extremes that you have, so last year in particular was a very hectic year for you, I’m sure we have a lot of Lord Of The Lost fans here among our listeners, and, of course, we heard everything that was going on regarding the tour, ESC, all the stories—awesome, how you have to keep the balance between—you’re on an absolutely extreme sine curve of “I’m standing in front of lots and lots of people at Wacken, I don’t know, hundreds, thousands, and then a few hours later I’m at home totally alone.”

Class: Yeah.

Jessica: And this… how do you create this balance, so that you keep up the passion, keep up the anticipation, or do you have, for example, anything that you really enjoy doing that is completely separate from making music or playing live, which really balances you out?

Class: In any case, I have to say that fortunately I really like being at home, not that I’m such a homebody or anything, but—that’s why I really want my apartment to be really cool, that I don’t make any more compromises, that I really say—what do I know—I want to have THAT, and then I spend the money on something, but it’s not like it is about something totally extraordinary.

Jessica: What could it be then, a water wall or a fountain?

Class: Nope, for the first time in my life I have color on my walls.

Jessica: Oh! Okay.

Class: It’s not like I’d have really extraordinary things now, but [it’s] still something that I’ve never done before.

Pi: It’s often just the little details.

Class: Exactly. And that I really enjoy being at home and I’m also lucky enough to have found an apartment [in an area] where I really want to live, it all fits perfectly, culturally everything is totally cool. That means I’m also happy every time I come home.

Jessica: Mm-hmm, okay.

Class: The only thing that tends to get me down is that we are a band with a lot of potential and a lot of output and we have a lot of plans, which can sometimes be too much. You get the feeling that you’re coming home, but there’s still so much to do that you might be overwhelmed, because when you’re on tour you don’t always have the time to work through everything, but at the moment I kind of took the freedom to say that doing nothing is—not only as all those “TikTok psychologists” describe it—actually really, really important—

Jessica: Mm-hmm.

Class: —to enjoy doing a lot of things.

Jessica: Yeah. Yeah. That’s true.

Class: And therefore, I really enjoy being at home, even all alone. I love to spend time with my dogs, whom I share with my ex, that’s why I don’t have the dogs with me all the time, and I have also started to—as I didn’t do that for ages—in 1990 or 1992 for the last time—color miniatures. I always wanted to do that, but kinda forgot about it as a child; skating, girls and music were somehow more important then, I’m now really keen to do it again and also have the patience to work on it, that I didn’t have back then.

Jessica: I imagine it would be very meditative to simply discover or learn that you have finally found the patience to paint such small things in detail.

Class: Yeah.

Jessica: There is something incredibly calming and balancing about that, it’s also fun and you also have a result!

Class: Exactly! And above all, it’s also a way of overcoming frustration thresholds, because you just tell yourself, “Well, now I’ve got these 4 figures here, I have to paint the frock coat of a fantasy figure in the same color four times”, and then you think to yourself, “Fuck, now I have to paint these same fine lines that already really annoyed me before”, because you have to do it very slowly and carefully—you know that too, right?

Jessica: Mm-hmm.

Class: That you repeat the same line for the umpteenth time with the same calmness so that everything really looks the same.

Jessica: Yeah.

Class: You can, of course, eliminate mistakes in this hobby, but still. That’s a certain frustration threshold, which I also find impressive in tattoo artists, for example, that they can draw these kilometer-long lines and have to check at least every centimeter to make sure the line is really accurate. I’m actually learning that right now too—in miniature.

Jessica: Absolutely! Yes, and simply to have this inner incentive to do the same as with the figure before, because you have the comparison there.

Class: Yes, it has to be at least as cool, and you also want to get better.

Jessica: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Whereby I also have to say that with things like this—as you mentioned that with us tattooists it’s the same, so, sometimes less thinking is really helpful, because if you think about it all the time—especially if you’re doing something mirrored for example—you have to draw this line exactly the same, in the same quality and exactly the same on the other side, because it’s encapsulated forever in a layer of skin in a person who sees it forever in their life—you can’t do that! If you think about it like that, yes, then you go crazy, that’s not helpful at all, then you sweat and go crazy and fall off your chair.

Class: Yes, of course, but I just meant it’s less fun when you draw the same line for the third, fourth or fifth time than the first time, where you go, “Wow, now that looks cool!”

Jessica: Is that the case for you?

Class: It is. It’s no drama, it’s just the one thing that I’ve realized now, that I’ve learned, is that you can’t do this wishy-washy just because you—you do get better and possibly have more—so, a better flow in the line because you know… but it’s like that, if you have to do it for the fourth or fifth time, then it starts to get on your nerves and then you have to get over the frustration threshold. It’s a bit like yoga, where they say, “Meditate, just don’t think about anything!”—but then you just think, “Oh, I have to do that same line again for the fourth time!”

Jessica: I understand that, yeah.

Class: That’s great if you can stand it when you say, “I have to do the same thing for another 3 hours, but mirrored.”

Jessica: Yes, well, as I said, I just have to stop thinking about the consequences if I do something wrong, because otherwise I’d go crazy. But it’s interesting, because for many people, doing things more often gives them a sense of security. Routine gives you real security and so on

Class: Sure. That’s the good thing about it.

Jessica: But it’s nice that you’re the kind of person who has the incentive to make things better when they’re not just good straight away, with such super-small bits and pieces. I really couldn’t do that at all.

Class: But you’re doing tiny bits and pieces too!

Jessica: Yes, but I have a huge machine in my hand, with a needle.

Class: Yeah, yeah, okay. 

Jessica: But these tiny projects; I find this very admirable.

Class: Yes, it’s really like drawing on a pinhead sometimes.

Pi: Wow.

Class: Not exactly like that, but kind of. With the heads that I’m currently working on, I learned that such a face consists of various skin-colored shades, depending on light and shadow.

Jessica: Mm-hmm. Contouring.

Pi: Oh, is that in SUCH detail then?

Class: Yeah, there are sometimes 4 different shades of skin color on such a face, which is as big as the nail on your pinky finger. And then there are the white in the eyes and the pupil.

Jessica: Wow!

Class: That’s pretty awesome.

Pi: There I am… I imagine that… that is such meticulous detail work.

Class: Yeah.

Pi: I imagine that you see 10 figures there in front of you, and, you know, each of these figures has two of these eyes!

Class: I find that crazy. And in the end, art is always derived from nature, just like tattoos. The hardest part to paint is the face and the head, which is super hard, but that’s where you have to put in the most work, because nobody looks at a character’s shoes all the time, but when you look at a person or a character—first you usually look at the face, then somehow at what’s above it—and only then do you look at the armor, the weapons and whatever else is there.

Jessica: That’s true.

Class: But unfortunately, that’s the most difficult part.

Jessica: Okay. I find that really interesting—

Class: Yes, it’s a good comparison.

Jessica: —how you simply just don’t [do] something like that… now we’re getting back to these stereotypes, like we already had in the previous episode… how nicely unexpected something like this actually is.

Class: You are not even aware of the consequences at the beginning when you dive into a hobby like this, you think, “Well, a little blue here and then, bang! Light and shadow, highlights and so on…”

Jessica: Cool!

Class: Ultimately, this is no different to what you have to take into account as well—where the light comes from, for example, if you’re going for photorealism or something like that or hyperrealism or whatever it’s all called

Jessica: Exactly. Props to everyone who does this. I take my hat off to them.

Pi: Or body shapes… i.e. lines in the body, how they have to run, i.e. anatomy.

Class: That also.

Jessica: Yes, but I mean that in general, this—let’s put it this way—this cosmos of… you know… they know you from a big stage, and then you come home from a big tour and go home and paint these detailed little things. I find this contrast beautiful. 

Class: It IS nice because there’s this contrast and not because I… at the moment I’m really only doing it for myself, and you can really say, “Everything else is turned off now.” Even if you have bad thoughts or whatever, they play less of a role then, because you just think, “I have to stay in this line now, the color can’t flow away”—the color has to flow, of course, I’m there now, too, it’s about consistency and such.

Jessica: Yeah.

Class: Like when does a color have the right flow?

Jessica: Totally difficult, yes.

Class: Fortunately, you can very well lose yourself in it, and it is—also like tattooing or making music—it just never ends. I’m actually quite new to it, even though I started as a child.

Jessica: Mm-hmm.

Class: But it’s fascinating when you look at the techniques selectively, when you think, “Now I have to do this”, then I find out what it can mean. That’s why I’ve become a huge fan of YouTube, because no matter what you do, there are so many cool people who can really help you with the coolest videos.

Jessica: Yeah. You just said something really, really beautiful, and that is that you… you just said in a subordinate clause that you’re not doing it to somehow have an output, but that you’re doing it for yourself. And I think that’s the achievement of a balance or a hobby or something you do for yourself in general, that you don’t always strive for this output and this productivity. (She struggles to pronounce “productivity”, tries several times, * raspberries* then says, “Again! Pi! I cannot talk anymore!”)

Pi: What was it? Hyaluronic acid?

Jessica: *pretends to struggle while pronouncing “hyaluronic acid”*

Class: We still remember that from the first episode.

Jessica: That’s a really difficult word, seriously.

Class: I have just read it somewhere and thought of you then.

Jessica: You think of me when you read “hyaluron”. Oh no! Look at my face.

Class: I did not mean to interrupt you.

Jessica: But how cool is it to just get to that point— it took me 10 years to get there — it took me a really long time to realize that it’s really cool to just do something without uploading it, without showing it to people, without having an output, without getting money for it, but just because you’re so into the process.

Class: But the bad thing is, what I’m now also… I’m still in doubt as to whether this is the right idea… Nowadays we share everything we’re proud of, everything we’re happy about, because this urge has become a part of the upbringing meanwhile…  

Jessica: That’s true.

Class: It also makes sense. The fact that I’ve also thought about it now… Firstly, do I think what I’m doing is cool? I have to admit to myself that I don’t think it’s wrong to be proud of yourself when you’ve picked up doing something again, and then I’m happy to share it and if then those YouTube people whose videos about how you do it in the first place you’ve seen— that’s the process we live in today—when THEY see it and say, “Hey, what you’re doing is cool!”, then… so I… that’s just… my inner conflict is that I think, “Fuck! Maybe people are interested in it, because I’m interested in it too”, I can watch it for an hour and a half — not ten hours, but the best things about a character edited together, and I’m relaxed, then I think … “Fuck!” —we all want to create content somehow, unfortunately, because we’re artists too, and that’s an important part of it these days, so I’ve already thought to myself, “Maybe I won’t just do it for myself, maybe I’ll share a bit.”

Jessica: But that’s nice! To WANT to create, and not to HAVE to.

Pi: Exactly, that’s the difference!

Class: I was just about to say that. But you still have the fear, you say, “Fuck!” Is saying “fuck” even allowed? It is, right?

Pi: Yes, of course.

Jessica: Oh, you know what I’ve already said here, really bad things. 

Class: That’s when you run the risk of thinking: is this really the right way for me to go about it, or do I really have to have something that’s just for myself? But then I think maybe you simply can—as is already being done here—some things are meant for the public, and some things are just for myself.

Jessica: Yeah. Exactly. Or you stop when you notice that things are going in the wrong direction. I dunno, when you e.g. think, “Uh-oh, I need to do a post about my little miniature characters tomorrow again, because people are expecting that!”

Class: Yeah, that would suck.

Jessica: It puts you under pressure and you’re not doing it just because you have the time and leisure for it, that’s when it—

Class: Yes, that’s true.

Jessica: Then you should stop.

Class: Therefore, if I then have the feeling: yes, I’ll do that now—because the good thing is actually that… I have such a small workstation that when you say, “Well, I’m in the mood now, I’m going to sit down, put a bit of water on the wet palette to keep the paints moist, so to speak, bang, brush, a bit of water in the pot”—and then it starts. That’s the great thing, whether you only paint for 30 minutes or 4 hours, it’s really just a way for me to relax, to really get rid of all the thoughts that I’m not in the mood for at the moment, I want to go to bed, I want to blow everything out again, so that I can just say, yeah, and the best thing about it is that I find this cooler than just to watch TV, to get away from binge-watching Netflix, etc.

Pi: I think that just by questioning and reflecting, “Hey, is it a good thing that I’m sharing this and thus taking away the possibility that this is really only for me, as I now share it with others and they think it’s great too, and that this could create a possible pressure to move”… I think that by questioning it, you’re preventing that because you know that you can always say, “I won’t do that anymore.”

Class: That’s true. And I think, everyone needs a natural boundary. You always see that people are successful because they always share everything they do on stage or off stage—no matter where—and it’s like that… what people tell you, “You have to post everything, always stay on the ball, the algorithm has to keep running.”

Jessica: [That’s] Ass. The algorithm hates me. It really hates me.

Class: You have to look—sometimes I create… well, not that I’m really “creating”, but… it’s the same with my dogs, who are a happy factor when it comes to Instagram, people are always keen on dogs, and in this case, I am also lucky that many people find my dogs very pleasant and special.

Jessica: They are really beautiful. Props again.

Class: And here, too, it’s actually like this—I can say that now—I take several pictures of the critters a day, like every person—oh, look, now he’s lying like this; now he’s lying like this; now he’s holding his ear like this—

Jessica: *giggles*

Class: It goes for dogs, cats… and that I—even if I don’t have the dogs with me currently, there are still things that I can post, and I always think, “Ha! People, I’ve been tricking you, in a positive, nice way, I don’t have the dogs with me each and every day.”

Pi: Now the people know that.

Jessica: Now you gave it away.

Class: Yes, but then it’s also just like that… you know, then I can just have MY time with my dogs for days on end, I take the photos anyway, whether they’re for me or not… but then I just say that I don’t have to open Instagram straight away and I might be distracted by a lot of stories from other huskies.

Jessica: And bang, you’re in, then you click on the magnifying glass and you’re spending three hours on some memes.

Class: That’s my biggest problem. You don’t always close the app, you just press “Phone off”, and then I want to look up something relevant, something important on the phone, and suddenly somehow… I switch the phone on, then I get to it, Instagram is still open, and there’s a cat that can’t manage to jump onto the bed because it slips on the slippery table and then falls off, and then… “Awww”, and then you move on… and then I think to myself far too often, or ask myself far too often, “I was here to do something… ” By now it’s such a bad feeling that I’m always being dragged into it, which is actually exactly what they want. Being controlled and trying to get out of it. That’s why I wasn’t sure with the miniatures whether I really wanted it just for myself, because it was actually a great feeling, “Fuck you all”, and then I sit there and have to concentrate on the smallest detail, which I’ve found awesome since I was a child.

Jessica: Great. Yes, I don’t know, you also have this—you’ve been brought up a bit like this, I’d say, to multitask. This multitasking ability was always a good thing, so to speak, “Wow, you’re really good at multitasking, that’s really good!” But it’s this “being in the moment” not doing two things at the same time, so… I don’t know how often the TV is on and you’re scrolling through Instagram or you’re actually cooking, want to look for a recipe but get stuck with a cat, you know?

Class: Yeah. Yeah.

Jessica: You’re in your own head the whole time, with everything, not with the thing you’re actually doing.

Class: Nope.

Jessica: And I think that’s just an unrelaxing thing and I think it takes us a really long time to get out of that habit.

Pi: Yeah.

Jessica: You’re currently searching…?

Pi: And above all, it should…

Jessica: Yes?

Pi: What, what, what, who? And above all it is not only exhausting to get out of it, it is generally exhausting for the head, if you constantly overload yourself with influences, like in your example, you’re sitting in front of the TV, scrolling through Instagram, and are also talking with someone—that’s three points of attention that your brain needs to process somehow—that’s really A LOT. The best people are even listening to music on top of all of that.

Jessica: And you aren’t doing any of these three things properly. You don’t have a cool conversation, you don’t have a good time on Instagram, and you don’t get anything out of the series either.

Class: And I also believe that multitasking is more or less just some kind of myth.

Jessica: Mm-hmm.

Class: So in the end, if I have music playing on the side, for example, then I can only listen to music that I know inside out, that I don’t have to listen to so much.

Pi: Yes. I feel the same way.

Jessica: Which is passive, a bit like that then.

Class: Exactly.

Jessica: Mm-hmm.

Class: I don’t know if it’s also because you get older or something, that you just think more about the things you do, but even—which many people also do—even if it’s something like in my case now, painting miniatures, where lots of people are watching other videos, I can—if at all—only watch something or listen to something because I don’t actually want to watch it either, because I have to look at these figures—that it’s something that’s not relevant, where there’s no action or anything, in the end I can only watch someone painting something and just say, “Yes, I’ll draw another line here and then…”—in the worst case, you always look up from what you’re doing and say, “Mm-hmm”.

Jessica: Yeah.

Class: But when some people are watching some show and then also at double speed while they’re kind of working…

Pi: Dude, yeah!

Class: Where I then think, like, that’s… eh, okay, we rarely go to the movies and really devote ourselves to things, but to really devote yourself to the story and I see that myself when I watch something and then you kind of—I’m on tour or something for two weeks and don’t watch the series any more—how much the magic of this series just dies off. Not always, but where you think, “Shit!" and when you’ve started a series, for example in my case with Picard, I’ve watched two or three episodes but only casually, it’s somehow not so cool. Then the other day I just said, “I’m just going to watch it again, really properly”, and then it was suddenly mega good, because you just… the magic is, I personally think, when you really see it like that and also these little things in the camera and how something is set up. It’s not easy with—

Pi: If you pay attention, yes.

Class: That also depends on the series, of course, but I don’t really want to be able to tell people, “I watched that”, just to be able to say it…

Jessica: Yes, yes.

Class: And that’s where I actually… I actually prefer to watch less TV, but then maybe I’ll take the time for a drink and make sure the sound is cool. I’m also a fan of everything being really… that the picture is really good, that the sound is good.

Jessica: So qualitative… you’re just up for cool circumstances, you know, where everything is perfect.

Class: Yes, that’s it

Jessica: That brings us back to the piña colada, you know, that it’s just such a well-rounded thing.

Pi: Yes.

Jessica: Awesome.

Pi: I, uhm… what did I want to say?

Class: Yeah, I don’t know either.

Jessica: Well. You should be prepared for the episode…

Pi: Nah, I just had something in mind, but then you started talking about piña coladas and…

Class: That’s right, the piña colada took me out of it too, but—

Jessica: Sorry!

Class: —but at least now I have—then I thought about my dry throat again and now I’m going to have another sip.

Pi: I’ll have a sip now too. Drink break.

Class: Wow, the leaves are poking me in the eyes.

Jessica: You have to lick them, the “hairdo” of the pineapple.

Pi: That hairstyle.

Jessica: Mmmmm.

Pi: Now I remember what I wanted to say.

Class: Lick the hairstyle?

Pi: I meant to say, “lick the hairstyle.” Ehm, no, this multitasking thing, that’s—so when someone says, “I am a real multitasking pro!”—that’s always in relation to some efficiency-based outcome, so you actually just want to say, “hey, I’m fully efficient in what I do.” But can you even be efficient at watching series?

Jessica: Yeah sure, because then I can start the next one straight away.

Pi: But no, that’s not what I mean. Not binge-watching, but efficiency. Can you watch badly or well? Well, I think you watch a series—or do something in general that you dedicate yourself to because it’s… painting characters, making music—if you’re doing something else while you’re doing it, I don’t think it’s going to be that good.

Class: I personally don’t think you should distract yourself with anything when you’re falling asleep.

Jessica: Hmm.

Class: Well, personally, I’ve never needed it, fortunately, and I’m quite happy—so I kind of understand the charm of always listening to the Three Investigators (series of books, in this case probably meant as audiobooks) even though it’s not what I’m into, but I’m kind of happy when I actually turn the lights off—so I just switch everything off and the only thing I might have left is the background noise from the city.

Jessica: Mm-hmm. Yes.

Class: But I don’t want to judge that either.

Jessica: The problem is… with a lot of people, and I can absolutely count myself in there, that you do a lot of things, even things that should actually give you pleasure or should organize your free time, like watching series, for example, that are always linked to a shitty output and a thought of productivity, because you—

Pi: Even when you’re falling asleep?

Jessica: Yes, of course. YES! I can… I watch something to fall asleep so that I’m fit to do something again tomorrow, because I’m in bed and I define my entire… my self-worth through fucking productivity. And that’s just stupid. I didn’t realize that for a very long time, that it doesn’t matter whether I paint 10 pictures or none, that I’m still worth the same.

Class: That’s true. But that’s difficult anyway.

Jessica: That’s very difficult, and I’m glad that the penny has—late, but still—dropped.

Pi: It’s very difficult. Because we—and there we’re back onto social media—it is suggested to us everywhere, “I am so productive, I do so much, I get up at 4 o’clock in the morning and then I go ice swimming and hold my asshole towards the sun and then…”

Jessica: Oh!

Pi: I have already seen this kind of video, where people hold their assholes towards the sun.

Jessica: Their ASSHOLE?

Pi: Yeah. Sunbathe it.

Class: Well.

Pi: Well. As far as I’m concerned… if that works for you—cool!

Class: I have been spared from this so far.

Pi: *laughs out loud*

Class: It’s not that I have anything against assholes or the sun.

Jessica: But you have to apply sun protection so that you don’t get sunburn there!

Pi: That would be really unpleasant there, that ends with blisters… never mind.

Jessica *laughs and coughs*

Pi: But you get what I mean, you get suggested a lot on social media, there, productivity is equal to “I’m the coolest person on earth and my life is so cool!”

Jessica: But may I briefly say something about that?

Pi: Yeah.

Jessica: You, as a band, appear to be very, very productive, I hear that very often, and that people really take their hats off to the fact that you have a huge—

Class: Output.

Jessica: —not only quantitative, but also qualitative output.

Class+Pi: Thank you.

Jessica: But you also manage to shoot it out en masse.

Pi: It’s really a lot. I’m not trying to say that productivity is something bad, it’s something good actually per se. But it’s not good to exclusively define yourself through productivity. To define your self-worth through it.

Jessica: That’s why I find it really cool that we’re currently talking about characters. Class, how many bass guitars do you own? Which is, of course, also interesting, but behind all this productive, also passionate output, as you are in for it, you are in the mood for reaching a goal, a whole lot of “balancing” still needs to happen, in order for it to stay this way. So it does not fail.

Class: Yeah. I mean—this is a bit of a change of subject, but as far as my dogs are concerned, for example, where I collect content and then give it out, I also show my affection for my animals, so to speak, and I love these animals too, but I don’t show anything that could be annoying about the animals, so, not that the animals are annoying, but that the food is expensive, that daycare is expensive when I’m not there, that I’m lucky that my animals are so relaxed and so on, but that sometimes—and this probably has something to do with self-worth—I’m afraid that people will think what I have with my animals is too good, that they’ll just think it’s too good, “Cool, I’ll do that too!”, and buy the same animals, which may well be too much for some people. That’s why I’m sometimes afraid, or rather I think I have a responsibility, to say from time to time what’s “bad” about these animals, because especially when it comes to the responsibility for an animal somewhere, it’s almost irresponsible sometimes to only show how great it all is with these animals, because unfortunately too many animals end up in animal shelters as a result.

Jessica: Yes. Yes.

Class: Because huskies are not the right dogs for beginners. I also have a lot of people—or even some people who have nothing to do with me—who say, “Oh, look, I’ve got a cute husky!” and then I think, “Oh dear, I hope you realize that it’s not just cute.” But with great reach comes great responsibility.

Jessica: Yeah.

Class: And I don’t know how to handle that yet.

Jessica: But that’s also something we all have inside, and it’s not—we don’t do it primarily on purpose, that we only show the nice things—it’s really the case that-that’s what social media is made for in a way, that we don’t immediately film, for example, when the robot vacuum cleaner scatters your dogs’ shit around the apartment.

Class: Unless it is funny!

Pi: That IS funny.

Jessica: I would also share that, I’d also find it funny, if that happened to you, but we also had that already—and it’s so important that you just realize that I don’t have such an impressive jet-set life, or that you guys don’t have such an amazing jet-set life all the time, from Miami to Tenerife and, I don’t know, “everything is super awesome here”, but that it can just be shitty sometimes. There’s no other way to put it. And that I’m often just not satisfied with my work, that you zoom in a thousand times, that you think, “How can you tattoo so badly, why aren’t you better?”, that you’re in this comparison mode all the time… I think you just have to be aware that there’s always a downside.

Class: Yeah. And the biggest hurdle for me, which I’m now trying to accept for myself, is that I’m no longer trying to improve the pictures, or so…

Pi: Just put a filter over it or something.

Jessica: You mean editing?

Class: The fact that today I simply… I mean, because I assumed this was going to be with video, I tried to cut like an edge into my 3-day beard so that I look more groomed and stuff, but…

Jessica: For all of you, who now can’t see this… Class looks awesome!

Pi: Looks great! He even took a shower.

Class: Yeah—

Jessica: Look, he’s glowing! He’s glowing.

Class: —it would be so easy to remove all my wrinkles, so I’d look somewhat cooler, I’d look a bit closer to the beauty standards, and it’s really like that… today I thought, “with this bright sunlight today, and with all those gray hairs in the beard.”

Jessica: I don’t see them!

Class: *laughs*

Jessica: No, really… either I’m too far away or it’s because of the light from behind you.

Class: Thank you, thank you so much. You just look more tired in a picture like this, without a filter, for example if you have dark circles, wrinkles or whatever, and, of course, it takes a certain amount of effort to say, “I’m just normal now.” Unfortunately, nowadays it’s so easy to tell people something… to blind people, so to speak.

Jessica: Absolutely.

Class: And, of course, you also have the feeling that you’re losing the competition, because in the end it’s the guy who has fewer feelings or who doesn’t care so much, he’s quicker at the draw, puts a filter on everything, possibly gets the reach, the algorithm and so on, and in the end I’m a bit boring, because I just say, “Hey, that’s me, I’m sitting in the park today, I’ve got a funny hat on, have a 3-day beard, and my dogs are sitting back there.”

Jessica: Yes.

Pi: Yes, or there is almost a rejection because so many people are so used to such filter things.

Class: Yeah. Yeah.

Pi: Including myself. When you see that nothing has been done there, it’s completely unedited—

Class: That’s a bit repulsive.

Pi: No, it’s not, it’s—

Class: It is somehow.

Pi: It’s such an unfamiliar picture all at once. It’s #nofilter, not ironically this time, but for real.

Jessica: That’s… it’s… yeah.

Class: That’s already the case… the phone already has a filter.

Pi: Yeah, yeah, it already smoothens you.

Class: There’s nothing where… well, you’d have to have an SLR or something, but even with that the sky probably looks bluer, too.

Jessica: Yes, I mean, for me, it started 10 years ago, when you just didn’t wear make-up to university or work for a day or something—the first thing that happened was, “Oops, are you ill?”

Class: *laughs*

Jessica: Yeah, because the people are used to one thing from you: your look. They see the completely smooth, Botoxed Pi on Instagram, I don’t know if I put filters on it all the time now, and you’re really smooth…

Class: No, that’s really botox.

Jessica: He is really smooth.

Class: Are you talking about him or about his filters now?

Pi: About my botox!

Jessica: He is; Pi really looks very nice in real life also.

Class: Also in real life.

Pi: Thank you.

Jessica: But now imagine, you’re someone who really massively uses filters or in real life uses make-up. How it totally sucks if the person doesn’t look like that in real life then! That’s why I think it’s actually very good, to show a bit of honesty and also to show for example that I have a cold sore sometimes…

Class: But nowadays, unfortunately, it takes a lot of effort to think about whether this is the right way.

Jessica: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.

Class: Yes, it is, but you’re still asking yourself that.

Pi: Life hack: always just walk around looking so ratty that when you put make-up on, and shave, and shower again, it has a crazy effect.

Jessica: Okay!

Class: I just find it so horrible, that people go to plastic surgeons with their own photos with filters, and say, “That’s what I want to look like!” —and it’s not like it’s just them, it’s like a wildfire somehow. And there’s also this guy that I’ve seen on YouTube—nothing against YouTube, I like it—he just removed his mirrors from his home, tried not to see himself in the big glass windows in the shopping malls anymore, for two weeks no mirrors at all, the only thing he had was his phone with filters, so when he saw himself, there were always filters—these automatic filters.

Pi: Oh, wow, wow… yeah.

Class: And after two weeks he hung up his mirrors again and immediately felt depressed, because he was so unhappy with what he saw, and it’s not for nothing that there is this ideal of beauty, this template and so on, when a person is very attractive…

Jessica: Yeah.

Class: And yeah, I dunno.

Jessica: That’s tough.

Class: I’m trying to somehow “demystify” the whole thing a bit so that I don’t have a problem with being in some “edited world”, where they, of course, also drag us in to earn more money.

Jessica: Sure.

Class: And make us dependent on beauty. And I find beauty totally cool.

Pi: Who doesn’t?

Jessica: But authenticity is also cool, and loving yourself.

Class: And how often—I can say that about myself at least—do you get dragged into something that you—as in my case, when I see a beautiful woman—that I say, “Wow, she’s beautiful, blah…” this and that. And the ones that have perfected the beauty standards are actually the ones that never look like that in real life—or at least only very few—they are those where you get to think, “Oh. FaceApp”.

Jessica: The thing is: what does that do to you, you know? I think that’s the main thing.

Class: Then you no longer find the women you meet across the street at Penny’s (supermarket chain in Germany) attractive, the ones you should most likely fall in love with if you’re looking for love or something.

Jessica: Love at first sight at Penny’s.

Pi: Penny-women.

Class: You can’t rule that out.

Jessica: Yes, that’s interesting. But there it really is… that’s one thing, so… Internet perception versus real perception or simply because you… I mean, let’s take Instagram, let’s replace it with a stage, that’s also something where people look up to you and just see this picture of you, right? And just assume that you’re so-and-so or that you do this and that, and that your dogs never do poo poo, that they’re always cute too.

Class: Yeah.

Jessica: That’s the thing… you always form a picture somehow, and that’s why I always find it really nice when I also get to see a few honest private things about the people that I admire, for example, whom I am a fan of.

Class: I think, I mean, the stage is actually always somehow the place that was invented specifically so that you can be someone else or show something or play a role.

Jessica: Mm-hmm.

Class: That’s okay for me too still, but if you’re a different person in your private life, you don’t always wear a leather jacket and body painting there, or… what was I going to say?—Now I’ve lost my train of thought… for example, I thought it was cool—or it was enough for me back then, but I was—I come from a different time, that I only saw live concerts by “my artists” that I thought were really cool, and they were like idol-myth figures to me, that didn’t really exist, and I just bought a magazine where an interview was designed so that the band thought it was cool, with pictures of the band, just like we do, and I didn’t really WANT to know whether they were normal or not. I just wanted to see the music and the image they wanted to produce—I just wanted to see the product.

Jessica: Mm-hmm.

Class: If I watch a cool Netflix series… I find it cool that Henry Cavill (British actor) also paints miniatures.

Pi: Right, Warhammer.

Class: But I actually only want to see Superman, the cool guy. He’s just… wow. I am the kind of guy who finds myths cool.

Jessica: Because you are afraid to get disappointed?

Class: No, because I just think, everything else is somehow—I dunno­… not disappointed. I like monsters, I like fantasy, science fiction…

Jessica: Okay.

Class: I like to immerse myself into this world, and when I’m done with it, then I go back. I also like motivations and “behind-the-scenes”, but having to demystify every little thing, as is the case today, that you are “best buddies” with everyone, that you can somehow explain everything and can no longer simply be “enchanted”, that’s how it feels a bit. Even with bands, if you’re keen to get to know people in their private lives, which is usually the case.

Jessica: Yes.

Class: But times are changing. I don’t want to say that everything was better back then.

Jessica: Yeah. Sure

Class: But I found it cool.

Pi: There are bands who reveal a lot of personal information about themselves. I would say that we are also a band which is very approachable.

Class: Yeah.

Pi: You are welcome to disagree, but I do think so, particularly because of TV Of The Lost and stuff like that.

Class: You really can say that.

Pi: Definitely.

Class: We are moving with the times, one can say.

Pi: At best, we also go really fast, so that time sometimes has to catch up with us.

Jessica: Do you have a TikTok account?

Pi: Yes.

Class: Yes.

Jessica: Cool. Sorry.

Class: Yeah.

Pi: And it’s all very close and there’s a lot of demystification, because we don’t just sit in interviews with our make-up on and—

Class: Yeah. That’s what makes it reasonably relaxing, on the other hand.

Pi: That’s what makes it reasonably relaxing, as make-up is also… it takes some time. So I… I find both cool, I also like to see a band as “this one, my favorite band” and to think I will never be able to talk to these persons as a “buddy”, because they are just so…

Class: That’s what you think, right.

Pi: They are those awesome dudes, bro, who play there. And also dudettes. 

Jessica: Yeah.

Class: But I think it’s more difficult with those you know from back then, or, for example, I could talk less with the guys who were successful in the ’90s than with the guys who have somehow been successful in the last 10 years. Because the others, they simply seem so far away—okay, maybe because you were younger back then, a child and all that, but they seem so far away, and the others from today, from the last 10 years, they seem so much closer.

Jessica: Mm-hmm.

Class: Because they’re either on YouTube doing their thing, or you can look on Instagram to see what cats they have, what dogs they have.

Jessica: Yeah, that’s true.

Pi: Where they live, what they like to eat…

Class: Yes, exactly. And how they speak!

Jessica: You can find out a lot of things on the Internet, yes.

Class: What they really sound like.

Pi: You probably have seen more than that already.

Jessica: I know everything about you!

Pi: *laughs*

Class: Now let’s talk about ME again, I mean… what am I here for anyway?

Pi: I was just about to say that.

Jessica: Have you already read the book by Class?

Class: I’ll quickly go get myself a glass of water.

Pi: A glass of water? Okay, we’ll take a short edit break then.

Class: Where did you stop?

Jessica: I don’t even know.

Pi: *laughs* Jessy doesn’t want to know anything anymore.

Jessica: I don’t want to know anything anymore, I’ve had enough of this already.

Pi: Then we could simply talk about music now.

Class: We could do that, too.

Jessica: NO! Right, actually I have…

Class: We can talk about everything.

Pi: Oh yeah.

Class: *in a tone that makes it sound like he is talking about very deep secrets* You know, we can talk about everything.

Jessica: We can talk about everything, you, of course, know that this is a podcast which has a lot to do with music, and the Internet has passed something on to me, namely that you’re not at all—like many of you in the band—that you’re not at all—the origins of your own musical taste don’t come from this goth rock thing—

Class: Yeah.

Jessica: —but your first contact with guitar music was punk rock and Bad Religion.

Class: Yeah. It’s fair to say that there was already a bit of AC/DC in there before, which is normal, you can’t avoid AC/DC, I thought that was cool, but really, when you develop your own identity, then it actually started with my neighbor’s brother selling CDs and… Nah, but before that I was already… my first punk record was NOFX’s I Heard They Suck Live!!

Jessica: There is actually… Exactly on this topic; that’s what Fat Mike said, that’s my absolute favorite quote. He once said, “Punk rock is good music made by bad musicians.” That’s just so true!

Class: Yeah. Even though Fat Mike is a fantastic bass player.

Jessica: Yes, but he simply is just a great guy in general.

Class: My first concert was actually, well, I actually started with NOFX, then Pennywise, Bad Religion and so on, and my first concert in 1998,which was the first concert I actually chose to go myself, was then… uhm, was that at the Docks, Grün--, Große Freiheit? I think it was Große Freiheit (street near the Reeperbahn in St. Pauli). Bad Religion. And I don’t even know why, but I loved it straight away, this crowd surfing, stage diving, and you were still—I even counted it, I added it up, so crowdsurfing and stage diving, I did it 13 times anyway, I was on top of the people 13 times, and that was so cool, that was—at first I felt a bit stupid, you just get fished out by the security, but I also thought it was awesome how cooly it worked: running out, running back into the audience from the side, immediately back into the middle, somehow tapping the next big, somehow sturdily built guy on the shoulder, pointing upwards, he immediately gives you a leg up, because I’ve always been a pretty light person, he threw me up there, then I was carried up there, and that was so cool, so with Bad Religion, that was before—before they got the drummer, who now plays with Weezer I think—no idea.

Pi: Weezer.

Class: But that was also the case that I was lucky enough to hear—currently one of my favorite bands—Rancid.

Jessica: Yes?

Class: They had the album after …And Out Come the Wolves, this… which was very reggae-heavy, Life Won’t Wait.

Jessica: The black and red cover kind of rings a bell for me, doesn’t it?

Class: Nah, that was …And Out Come the Wolves, the one before, where the punk is sitting on the stairs.

Jessica: On which “Who is Radical?” is on.

Class: I think so. Yes, yes, but after that there was also a hit record, but also a lot of reggae and stuff, that ska thing and all that. I was actually in the Markthalle (venue in Hamburg), it was so cool to see the guys, even with an old organ and stuff, it was the first time that I’d done super-long crowd surfing, from the front, but this time they carried me to the back, to the end of the Markthalle, and then back to the front again. That was so cool, and I actually—I was one of the annoying ones who stayed in the audience and shouted at the backliners to give me a stick or a setlist.

Jessica: Awesome!

Class: And as I said, crowdsurfing is still the best, I do it less often now, though, but when Body Count came to the Große Freiheit with the double show before… just before the pandemic, I think—I just thought, “2–3 beers would go really well with this concert, then once again really nice in the mosh pit and with all the naked, sweating guys—”

Jessica: Mm-hmm, with the fine undershirt.

Class: Nah, with nothing at all!

Jessica: Oh, cool.

Class: I took it off and put it in the back of my pants.

Pi: Yeah, yeah.

Class: And that was cool, also crowd surfing, I don’t do it that often anymore, actually mostly when we’re on tour with our own band.

Pi: We haven’t done that for a long time!

Class: Nah, but I’m up for it again.

Jessica: So like… crowd surfing while your support band is playing, or…? What do you mean?

Pi: What? No, from the stage, with the instrument.

Class: Nope. At our own show. 

Jessica: Oh, while you’re playing!

Pi: Yes!

Class: For example. I’m going to do that again, I think—

Jessica: Awesome! Yes, because look, I have a big dream—

Class: Yes?

Jessica: I would love to stage dive during a Lord Of The Lost show.

Class: Yes, you can do it.

Pi: Nope.

Class: Let’s put it that way: people need to be sensitized, because they actually come less from the environment of—

Pi: Exactly!

Class: audience-based… energetic audiences, if I may put it that way.

Pi: Exactly

Jessica: It will definitely happen next year at Lordfest.

Pi: This year, I thought.

Jessica: Yes, yes that’s right, it’s 2024. In any case, to avoid injuries, I thought, in case people don’t catch me, I’ll do it in a sumo wrestling outfit. Awesome, isn’t it? Together with the special guest.

Class: The good thing is that you are pretty light, I assume.

Jessica: I am curious. I’m definitely up for stage diving during your show. So, if anyone hears this and is at Lordfest, catch me, okay? That would make me happy.

Class: I’ve always liked the singer from Machine Head… what’s his name again?

Jessica: Robert Flynn.

Class: Robert Flynn, yes. It was during The Burning Red, that was the first time I saw them, that was my transition to really heavy music, Machine Head with The Burning Red, then there was Team, then Mudvayne, Pantera and so on.

Jessica: Mudvayne is a band that has been forgotten. I was thinking about them recently—

Pi: But they’re back.

Jessica: Really?

Class: Yes. But it was always more in America than in Germany. That was actually—[I was at the] front row and Robert drops into the audience and he really had quite the belly back then, I don’t know what it’s like now—and when a heavy person like that drops into the audience, it’s really tough.

Pi: It’s not cool!

Class: That’s a different thing, with someone like you or me, that’s really easy to do.

Pi: I once went to a concert by The Subways.

Jessica: *laughs*

Pi: In Kiel, in the “Halle 400” (concert venue).

Class: The Subways are more like indie pop, no, rock.

Pi: Rock & Roll Queen, that was…

Class: Supercool song.

Pi: Legendary. And the frontman and guitarist just climbed onto the stage and jumped down from there.

Class: Yes, some people do that.

Pi: Into the crowd, right on top of me, yes, and I accidentally grabbed him between the legs.

Class: Yeah, you somehow have to—

Pi: Get a grip.

Jessica: Get to know each other.

All of them *laughing out loud*

Jessica: Pi, did you ever do stage diving?

Pi: Stagediving?

Jessica: Do you do that in metalcore?

Pi: In metalcore it’s more mosh pits.

Jessica: I mean, did you ever do it, as a spectator at a concert? Stage diving, that you got onto the stage and jumped down from there?

Class: He only does head walking and alike.

Jessica: Wow!

Pi: Headwalking! “Crowd killing” or whatever that’s called. No. No, I actually did not.

Jessica: Okay. Good. We’ll do that the day after tomorrow. The day after the day after tomorrow we’ll go to a concert.

Pi: What?

Jessica: We’re going to stage dive.

Pi: That’s right. Knocked Loose, Death Heaven.

Jessica: It’s going to be great. Stage diving to a blast beat like that.

Class: I have to put it into perspective that I’m more of the old school faction, mosh pit and all that, this whole violent dance or head walking or—

Pi: That’s nonsense, dude.

Class: All that… well, I’ve also seen enough people with bleeding noses, and friends of mine have been hit hard and stuff, but this proactive violence—

Jessica: Yes.

Class: Not really either, but it just happens more when you let your fists fly and stuff—that’s not my thing.

Jessica: It’s difficult with these roundhouse kicks.

Pi: That’s the one part, I have to say, that bothers me a lot about modern, heavier music, that it’s accepted that maybe some people won’t have a good time at the concert because of it.

Class: Yeah.

Pi: I think that’s stupid.

Class: In theory, it’s the same with us, when we have a bit of a classic mosh pit or something, some people feel negatively affected by it in the truest sense of the word, but you should not take it too seriously, you just have to know that when you’re dealing with heavier music, it also triggers other emotions.

Pi: Yeah. 

Class: Except the arms in the air and left, right and clap.

Pi: Yes, physical contact in a good way and if everyone knows the rules of a mosh pit, then nobody really gets hurt.

Class: We all look out for each other. Anyway, that’s the maxim, or my maxim, from my punk rock, hardcore, metal days. There’s never been so much violence with so much peace and love as there is in a mosh pit.

Jessica: Absolutely.

Class: I am old school. I think that’s more old-school than this other stuff.

Jessica: Well, the message is also… it speaks for itself, this whole PMA, this whole positive mental attitude, if someone falls, we help them up again.

Class: Yes, exactly. We’ve lost each other—we’re all looking [for those who got lost].

Jessica: Yeah, but if you just—you know, it’s already in the name: “violent dancing”—and you just do a roundhouse kick… firstly, you look stupid doing so—sorry, now I’m making enemies again, but that’s just the way it is. And you don’t look behind to see if someone is standing there or something.

Pi: That’s exactly what I mean. You accept that some people might not have a good time because of your… moves, I’ll just call them that now.

Jessica: Dance two-step, that’s cool!

Pi: Like that!

Jessica: *laughs* Well. Yes

Class: Exactly. Well, there are always extremes somewhere. If the music naturally becomes extreme, you can’t—if I reflect on it now—always say, “Everything else mustn’t become more extreme!” I’m sure there are also some people who feel targeted. But it’s still always a bit tough, I say—too many people around you.

Jessica: What’s actually cool nowadays is when you go to a show by a band from back then that still actually makes music, yes, like Descendents, for example.

Pi: Yes.

Jessica: I was there two years ago or something.

Class: Unfortunately, I’ve never been to one of their concerts.

Jessica: *groans* Aaah, wonderful.

Class: The one with the coffee mug and “Eunuch boy” written on it, I don’t know what it’s called.

Jessica: Milo Goes to College? This one?

Class: Could be. I don’t even know if it had anything on it, but it was definitely mega cool, I bought it in a second-hand store back then just because I thought the cover was so absurd. A really a good band. Sorry.

Jessica: Exactly. He’s actually back on his feet now, there was a bit of a—

Pi: What did he have?

Jessica: Yes, but anyway… When I was at the concert, I was the youngest! There you can really—

Class: They are in their 50s and 60s.

Jessica: There is no mosh pit anymore. There are the family fathers, they stand there, as they are in the mood for being wild on a Tuesday evening, to drink beer with lemonade, that’s crazy. But it’s peaceful there.

Class: And each band has their time. It would also be kind of strange if it was so mega hip now, Bad Religion or something like that. Blink 182 is also dad punk nowadays.

Pi: Hardcore. So all the people in their mid 40s are now reliving their high school days, with What’s My Age Again?

Class: Machine Gun Kelly—is that punk rock?

Jessica: Definitely not, but it’s—

Pi: He wants to be everything at once.

Jessica: No, but he’s actively going for this high school pop-punk thing.

Pi: That also sells quite well.

Jessica: With Travis Barker… Travis Barker really has to be in every single video.

Class: He’s the producer. I keep asking myself whether the guy somehow knows that he’s just selling it or whether he just has such complexes that he…

Pi: Both.

Jessica: Have you watched The Kardashians?

Pi: No.

Class: A little bit. Eight episodes or something, once.

Pi: Okay? Cool.

Jessica: Isn’t that lovely, here we learn such fascinating things about Class!

Class: The things you do when you’re with… “Honey, let’s watch this!”

Pi: Yeah, sure.

Jessica: And he is actually married to one of the Kardashians.

Pi: Khloe? Kendall? 

Jessica: I have no idea. Khloe, PeePee, PooPoo… I have no idea, what they are all called. No idea.

Pi: *laughs* PeePee, PooPoo Kardashian, dude!

Jessica: But actually it’s very unpleasant to watch this, the last season, because they give French kisses to people half a meter away from them.

Pi: Damn.

Class: Yes, really.

Pi: A long tongue also.

Jessica: A very long tongue, and it happens very often in this season.

Pi: That’s true love.

Jessica: In my opinion… you know, they’re sitting at the dinner table with the kids and all the time they are fondling each other, “I cannot wait to shag you”, “yeah, me neither”—really wild.

Pi: *laughs*

Jessica: And I think, “Oh my gosh, Travis, Travis, you had such a cool band, that was so cool, What’s My Age Again?, and alike, and now, what’s happened? You are such a celebrity sex maniac now.”

Pi: He has desires, too.

Jessica: He has desires, too, of course. But so badly? And on TV? I mean, do as you please, but that unfortunately was a really cringy TV moment.

Pi: I believe that, yeah.

Class: Maybe they needed to take it all to a new level, as otherwise the series would lose significance.

Pi: Maybe.

Jessica: Could be.

Pi: Maybe he also doesn’t give a shit about us all.

Class: Maybe he does it on purpose… he is the winner, because he gets mentioned in this globally successful podcast.

Jessica: That’s how it is!

Class: But that’s the thing… you don’t really know if they really are this crazy.

Jessica: Yeah. How did we get from… Machine Gun Kelly, Travis Barker…?

Class: Punk rock.

Jessica: Yeah, okay. I like it. Then you most probably—well, not really “probably”, I’ve seen you many times in Amon Amarth merch and so on—you then stepped into metal. 

Pi: “Stepped.”

Class: “Stepped.”

Pi: Two-stepped.

Class: Yes. I found my foundation in Machine Head, Pantera, Mudvayne back then, it was also cool back then with those club gigs. Unfortunately, I missed bands like Slipknot at the Logo, but Mudvayne also played at the Logo in 2000. 24 years ago.

Pi: Dude!

Class: That was mega phat, but that was somehow—that’s what got me the most, and then I somehow expanded to everything around it.

Jessica: Yeah.

Class: That simply interests me more. After all, life is far too varied to only listen to metal all the time.

Jessica: Exactly. Like our playlists, right?

Class: Shit!

Pi: You came unprepared!

Class: No, no, no, no. Yes, but no. A few days ago I thought about it, as one of them is soft and one is straight forward.

Jessica: Exactly. “Gina’s Gloom” is–

Pi: Soft.

Jessica: Soft.

Pi: “Gina’s Doom” is… mosh pit.

Jessica: Is mosh pit—and The 13^th by Lord Of The Lost

Pi: *laughs*

Class: Exactly. I thought about the fact that I wanted to go in the direction of world stars after all, who are different after all.

Pi: Cool!

Jessica: Okay!

Class: I just forgot that I wanted to continue thinking about it, but—

Pi: Doesn’t matter. What do you add to it?

Class: For example on the—because I also know… oh, it’s getting a bit warm here, I’ve just leaned on a lamp.

Jessica: It’s getting hot here!

Class: Exactly. The “Doom” is hard, but I think I had the feeling that it was groovier, maybe a bit more fitness-oriented, that it would go well with fitness.

Jessica: Pi keeps posting that he plays it while working out.

Class: He wants to sell the list.

Jessica: He wants to sell the list, I listen to it while I’m cleaning.

Pi: May I briefly say something? I listen to it while working out, because it’s good for me there. Brutal. And The 13^th.

Class: Right. So, I actually have—the very first thing that came to my mind—I stuck with that. For the “Doom” it is Soul Sucker by Ozzy Osbourne, from the album Scream, which is actually not as well known, the second to last one, but it’s simply beastly awesome, and then I thought, but I did not pick out the song yet—by Peter Gabriel…

Pi: Wow.

Jessica: Wow. So multifaceted, it’s amazing.

Pi: From Ozzy Osbourne to Peter Gabriel.

Class: Aw, there’s so much!

Pi: Yeah.

Class: This song is okay, it’s totally well known. I have to pick one song, right?

Jessica: No, you may also add two.

Pi: Do two then!

Jessica: When our dear friend Tillmann was here, he added 20 songs. 

Pi: Felt like that, yeah

Jessica: And also brought along his own playlist.

Pi: “Tillmann recommends.”

Jessica: “Tillmann recommends.”

Pi: Which contains about 900 songs.

Class: Okay, I personally find this song very cool, of course, there’s the Peter Gabriel classic: Don’t Give Up, but it’s also very hard, very… because I find this groove really amazing. It’s by Peter Gabriel, from the record Up, Growing Up.

Jessica: Wow! Very nice.

Pi: Yeah, totally.

Jessica: We’ll add that.

Pi: Once again multifaceted. 

Class: I find that important, because you cannot solve every problem in life with deathcore.

Pi: *laughs out loud*

Jessica: This is the quote of the day, and that’s what I want to name this episode, “You cannot solve every problem with deathcore”, I find that really cool.

Class: That’s not only related to deathcore, I could also name every kind of music, but…

Pi: Yeah, yeah.

Class: Deathcore goes into a specific direction, progressing, which can normally serve an extreme feeling.

Pi: Absolutely!

Class: Life is more multifaceted.

Jessica: And if you wear blinkers when it comes to music genres, you’re missing out on a lot, I can definitely tell you that.

Pi: Definitely.

Jessica: Like, when you say, “I don’t listen to pop music, without exception”, you miss some really cool stuff!

Pi: You miss something.

Class: I was just about to say that, too. Definitely.

Jessica: Absolutely.

Pi: Cool! Then I’d say—

Jessica: Open your ears!

Pi: Open your ears, close your eyes! Now we… we’re going to say goodbye.

Jessica: Second round of piña colada, I’ll add some “gastric drops” here.

Pi: *laughs*

Class: True, we need to empty that still!

Jessica: Exactly, we empty this, Class. Thank you for being our guest, it was really nice and very… we are fully…

Pi: We are full.

Class: We are full.

Jessica: We have nicely… can we put it that way? You need to help me, it’s about the saying.

Pi: Oh-oh.

Jessica: We have nicely thought outside the box (in German the saying literally goes “to look beyond the edge of the plate”) 

Pi: Yes. Very nice. Looked, not shoveled. (geschaut vs. geschaufelt)

Jessica: You play with dangerous cards.

Class: What I noticed: you only ever just scratch the surface. We also had so many topics beforehand, which we didn’t talk about at all in the end, even though we wanted to… so I obviously need to come here again at some point.

Jessica: Yes please!

Pi: That’s how you invite yourself.

Jessica: Really cool.

Pi: So now we say bye.

Jessica: This was totally nice, thanks a lot for coming, Class.

Class: Thanks a lot for the invitation.

Jessica: See you next week!

Pi: Byyyeee!

Class: Byyyeee!  

 

Translation: Margit Güttersberger

Proofreading: Gaëlle Darde